66+ starter measurements

[Invectivus]

So, other than stockers, I haven't seen any definitive information on starters and compatibility (though my Google-fu is terrible). I figured I would share the measurements I took on my car (pictures will be added), after the fact…

Between my C4, 3.03, and FE high torque mini-starter, all the sprockets have the same number of teeth, same diameter, and same height (~ .584 inches.)

For a stock, 2 bold manual starter off a 3.03 bell/9inch flat flywheel, for a 66 and later dual pattern six-cylinder engine/bell housing;
The top of the teeth on the sprocket are about even with the 4.133 inch diameter locating collar that has a depth of~ .250 (.235 -.265) inches from the mounting face. The sprocket teeth extend approximately .883 (.970 on re-evaluation of measurements) inches from the starter mounting surface.

For a stock, 3 bolt automatic starter for a 66 and later dual pattern six-cylinder engine/bell housing;
The teeth on the sprocket are .340 inches above the 4.082 inch diameter locating collar that has a depth of .183 inches from the mounting face, for a total nose depth of .340 inches at rest. Extended, the sprocket teeth are ~1.261 inches from the starter mounting surface.
1.029+.252+.070-.09=1.261inches

My RobbCo starter, a 3 bolt high torque mini-starter for a big block ford FE engine has similar specs to the 3 bolt ford auto starter;
The teeth on the sprocket are .475 inches above the 4.083 inch diameter locating collar which has a .130 inch depth from the mounting surface for a total nose depth of .605 inches at rest. Extended, the sprocket teeth are ~1.294 inches from the mounting surface of the starter.

It’s a little hard to measure accurately in the engine side with it in the car, but it looks like the depth of the flywheel depth from the starter mounting surface is .335 inches, while my starter gear got chewed up starting about .358 inches. That was probably the sprocket walking out a bit under spin. I’m looking at trying to shim >.335 inches in the adapter, but I need a price from RobbCo on evaluating the starter and fixing the sprocket first. when i asked, i wanted to offer them some measurements in order to help them provide and market a product to help us out.

If anyone has specific information and links to viable starters with measurements, please share.

 

[Invectivus]

I exchanged emails with RobbMc, and found that Basically, it looks the 3 bolt 2001 (with the 2012 nose) was the correct starter for my C4, but that the 3003 (with the 2014 nose) is the correct starter for my 2 bolt, 3 speed bell and flywheel, as they have different at-rest sprocket depths.

Again, this is for a 66 and later, dual pattern block/3.03 manual bell. YMMV.

 

[Invectivus]

Fail. Basically their option was patterned for a 302, which doesn't fit the 200 3.03. Going to talk to them about providing measurements and see if they want to manufacture for the 200. So far, it looks like we don't have a documented working aftermarket starter for the 200.

 

[xctasy]

The way to work it all out is to divided the circumference by the teeth numer to get pitch. If the pitch is same, then Ford would have just changed the nose and bolt mounting holes to suit. Or the soleniod postion.

But for sure, after the last of the Ford and Chev style 153 teeth starters in the last FE's in 1964, the ages old bendix style starter and a 153 tooth flywheel was gone and in 1965 they went to a 184 tooth flexplate and a more modern starter that was used on almost every ford product for the next 20 years. So every I6 came into line and was FE like in its starter.

1.The early pre 3.03 era cars were 132 teeth for the Fordomatic 2 speed, then they upgraded to the C4 three bolt 136 toother
2.The FE block starter is certainly the same teeth pitch as the 3.03" layshaft Toploader and single rail and SROD. It was 136 teeth on the six, 184 on the FE.
3.The 138 teeth C3 starter motor 1978 to 1983, is the same as the Fox Capri/Mustang 2.8/Ranger/Explorer/Mustang 4.0 liter Cologne V6 item (and its little Mercury sold Capri 2600 and 2800 and 2.8 liter Mustang II and Pinto V6).
4. All post 2.77" transmissions in Australia from 1965 went to 157 or 160 teeth ring gear, same as the small bell SBF from 1962 to 1977.
5. For a few years, the Granada based cars with the 4.1 liter 250 got the Jatco 3-speed auto from the Toyo Kogyo Ford Courier 1800 cc engine, but still a SBF starter
6. For the years that the C4 went to lock-up clutch, the Americans moved to the 164 teeth big bell partly American SBF V8 item because of production.