Alcohol Injection??

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Can I run a mix (50-50) of denatured alcohol that you can buy at the hardware store and water in my water injection unit?? I've been running washer fluid through it :)

Any advantages??

Thanks,

Doug
 
It's a mist/liquid...I would think (could be wrong) that the alcohol/distilled water would have the least amount of minerals in it.

Cost isnt a factor :wink:

Later,

Doug
 
Hey Geezer, whered you get your injection. I wanna inject either my turbo intake or intercooler when it comes time. Just wondering where you got it, and how much?
Matt
 
I've heard that washer fluid is bad to use in the long run because of the soap/detergent in it, but I don't know exactly how valid that claim is. Denatured alcohol, if I'm not mistaken, is mostly ethanol, which has a (M+R)/2 octane of 100. So a water/alcohol mix should increase detonation resistance even more than the water/washer fluid mixture. IMHO, the alcohol mix is a much better way to go.
 
Use the alcohol/water mix. I used it in my turbo corvair (had no choice) when California gasoline turned into crap juice. GM used it in the first turbo car, called it "turbo rocket fluid" or some such nonsense. Time tested since WWII. You'll never see carbon build up again.
Rick
 
Cool! Thanks for the input guys!!! :D :D :D

The washer fluid works fairly well, but on hot days under the right conditions it will still ping every now and then....I was hoping that the water/alcohol mixture would put a end to it (dont want to back off the timing anymore).

Matt,

I bought mine (Holley) from a guy over at Mustangs and More.com several years ago. I see them on ebay once in awhile also. Figure between $30-$150

One last question?? Will the water/alcohol mixture freeze in the reservoir this winter??

Thanks,

Doug
 
Will it freeze? That's a good question. Alcohol has a loooow freezing point, about -180 degrees fahrenheit (that -117 C for the Euro's). A fifty-fifty mixture is listed as acting as an anti-freeze down to -20 degrees fahrenheit (-29 C) in my old army jeep book.
How cold does it get where you live? If it gets colder than -20 degrees F, you ARE allowed to move to a more reasonable climate... hell, that's cold enough to freeze vodka!
In my neck of the woods, if you leave a few beers outside, on a really cold night, in the middle of winter, they'll be perfect drinking temperature when you wake up in the morning (if you don't sleep in too late).
Rick
 
If the water/alcohol doesn't work then try less alcohol and more water. Water has a better ability to absorbe latent heat.
The Fighter Planes of WW2 used Water/Alcohol since water alone would freeze at high altitudes.

You might try different ratios of the mix untill you find what your engine likes. If that fails then try increasing the amount injected, a little at a time.

Speeking of Denatured Alcohol, I have a special right now for 190 proof denatured for $65 per 55gal drum. Supply is short, I'm down to 62 drums.

John
 
$65 per 55-gallon drum! :shock: Uhh try $20 per gallon around here. I have yet to find it in anything larger than 1gallon containers. And you are limited to how many you can buy. I only use it for prep work and cleanup when painting. So 55 Gallons is more than I'll need. Until I get around to building my new engine. :twisted:
 
hey fellas, what would u use to inject the methonal fuel in a methanol only injection set up??

i was thinking along the lines of a nitrous block but with out the nitrous running thru it, it wouldnt be a bad way as you can buy different pills to change the amount it is injecting fairly easily.

short of that you could go the whole electronic set up running thru a garden mist sprayer.

or even use the some old carbie jets to spray the fuel.

personly i think i may go the nitrous block on my engine.

cheers.joe.
 
The guys at TurboBuicks (who have LOTS of experience with alky-injection and turbo/carby combos) recommend NOT using windshield washer fluid as the ink used in it builds up on the turbo blades and can evenually cause problems in the turbo.

The general concensus is that the best and cheapest option is a 50/50 mix of supermarket distilled water ($1-$2/gal) and methanol. You can usually buy methanol at your local drag strip or speed shop for about $2/gal. As long ago as the 1930's Sir Harry Ricardo proved that a 50/50 mix of water and methanol provides the best compromise of detonation resistance and boost enrichment. More than 50% meth makes the mixture too rich, and denies the water an opportunity to steam clean your power track... ;)
 
If you have to choose between Methanol and Ethanol, go with the Ethanol. It doesn't have all the corrosion problems that Meth does.

John......willing to sell it by the Rail Car :lol:
 
If a 50/50 mix is cold enough to freeze, detonation shouldn't be a problem. Of course it would be good to know if you want to drain the tank to prevent possible damage.
 
Having run sawmill equipment at -20F I know how easily machinery can break at low temperatures, and anyone who would run an engine hard enough to NEED alcohol injection when it is that cold deserves to blow it up :twisted: When I was working at the mill in Judith Gap, Montana, we shut it down when the thermometer hit 40 below. Yup, that's mighty cold.
Joe
 
Normally aspirated.

A typical screen washer pump runs about 40 to 45 psi of pressure. The use of two 15 thou jets is enough to supress detonation on a 12.5:1 compression 2 liter Pinto engine running on pump regular, giving 130 net hp. This is about 14 cubic centimeters per minute per jet, or a total of an ounce of water a minute through two jets by my estimates. That's allowing an engine run 87 octane when it would need 105 octane at that compression ratio. The rise in ratio is from 8.2 or 9.2 stock, depending on the year. The idea is to under size the water injection jet, and just increase the discharge diameter with a drill and chamfer the craggs. There is no performance increase if too much water is used. Water injection just lets the engine live!

For a 200 or 250 cube engine, just start with two 15 thou jets for a 2-bbl carb, or one 21 thou jet for a single barrel. (A single jet isn't a good idea, though). Then go up or down depending on the compression rise and fuel grade. If the engine is giving 130 hp, then these sizes should be about right.

Nitrous Oxide

It is possible to add up to 50% (by volume) of the total fuel flow of an engine in water injection when N20 is used, with no loss in engine power!

Bearing in mind a stock 130 hp engine with nitrous may give well over 200 hp with a 70 hp shot of 4 pounds per minute. You then will need about 715 cc/minute, or about 18 ounces per minute of gasoline, plus the excess fuel needed to stop the nitrous leaning out. You could add over 360 cc/minute, or up to 13 ounces per minute! If you had a strong 200 hp engine to start with, and added a 100 hp kit, then obviously, there'd be a need for a massive 20 ounces per minute.

You'd need around six 38 jets just to get that on one of our sixes!


If you add alcohol and water mix, you get added power and detonation controll. It's all good!
 
8) Just use windshield washer fluid............it has alcohol in it and is cheap to use as well. Our first experiments with it using a vented bottle and a vaccuum line worked very well! I'm working on a better system and off we go!
 
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