G
Guest
Guest
Bah, no time frame as of yet. Ya get a break from it.
Id say, good season!
Id say, good season!
Another Turbo 200 nears completion....
- Thread starter Linc's 200
- Start date
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A
Anonymous
Guest
62-one-ton-falcon":mnwdhyxx said:I'd say, good season!
From a 100% stock, high-mileage engine, I would say so.
A 12.99 would have been SWEET!
That would be some serious smack-down from a stock engine.
We'll see what a feshened up "stock engine" will do in the spring!
G
Guest
Guest
Youll be running with Kelly and Co. soon, just hope you have a good paintjob to go with it, theyre Falcon looks SWEET!
Appearence = secondary, though.
Appearence = secondary, though.
A
Anonymous
Guest
62-one-ton-falcon":h23bepev said:
My car fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
With the aluminum dryer vent tube sticking out of the pass side headlight bucket, (cold air intake) it does have a name now - - "the Borg".
G
Guest
Guest
If youve ever seen "Two Lane Blacktop" the movie, the 55 Chebby wasnt too pretty (and neither were James Taylor or Dennis Wilson or the girl riding with them), but it was built, and made some nice runs.
Bah, appearence. Its all about the experimentation to see how fast you can get her to go. :!:
Bah, appearence. Its all about the experimentation to see how fast you can get her to go. :!:
Linc's 200
Well-known member
Gary Stubbs (Stubby) has had some interesting discussion with me through PM's I thought I would share it here. Stubby's questions and comments are bold, and my answers below each one.
Concerning using a manual trans....
1) I was thinking that you had to load the engine to build boost.
With an MSD 2 step (wired with a clutch switch), you can use a rev limiting chip at a lower RPM, like 3000, on the line.
The MSD holds RPMs down by cutting spark. All that excess fuel and air burns in the exhaust, building GREAT boost on the line.
The throttle is wide open, the engine banging and rapping away terribly at 3000 and the boost is up. When you let out the clutch, the MSD two-step switches over to the other RPM chip you have selected (mine is 6000 currently in the MSD 6AL with no 2 step)
All of this is assuming I can get the Tremec 3550 trans installed, and the flywheel: is the big obstacle stopping me there.
I haven't decided whether I want to modify a stock 5.0 flywheel by:
a) redrilling crank holes and making neutral balance (I'm not too keen on the idea) or
b) getting a custom flywheel, which costs $$$$ I don't want to spend right now.
Having done all that, would need some serious upgrades to new slicks and maybe suspension tuning. If you see the video on page three of the thread, when I drop it into gear from neutral I have a fair amount of tire spin. I would have to fix that problem before going faster, or work on a softer launch. Getting more power to hook up would be the best idea.
2)
a) I also thought about optimizing the timing and mixture for the bottom end and retarding when boost comes on.
b) I think I saw steel wheels in one pic, maybe lighter wheels for better acceleration.
I did that. I recurved the distributor so I could get max initial advance and VERY LITTLE centrifugal advance. That's what got me that 13.59 at 103 run. There is still some room to play with it, but it is darn close.
This car has a lot of bottom end torque, believe it or not. Lighting up those 10" wide Hooter's Cup slicks is NO problem. I'll take it up against most any other automatic powered 200 out there. Maybe Mustang Geezer would get me off the line, but I would catch him QUICK! I wonder what his 60 foot times are.... I wonder what a lot of 200 powered cars' 60 foot times are....
Bottom end torque is a big problem with the brakes I have, since I can't get it to hold on the line!!
With my foot on the brakes and the parking brake pulled, I can get it to stall around 2600 RPM before building any boost, so the torque is there (sort of).
As far as the wheels, the little 14's up front on chrome modulars are pretty dang liight.
It would take some expensive Weld wheels and "skinnies" (3.5") to get much lighter.
3) Lots of similar ideas keep popping into and out of my head. Most of them cost large amounts of money for small gains and don't really have anything to do with the engine. It seems you have found the wall and it will take some creative thinking to get the ETs down without removing the restrictions in the induction and exhaust system.
This project has been inspirational and fun. For that I would like to say thanks. Gary Stubbs
That is always the problem - you reach a point where small gains cost large amounts.
NO, thanks to all of those who keep pushing me to keep the project going! The "experimenter" within me has been having a blast with this! And thanks to all those who offer ideas, and I am glad this project has been informative and entertaining to many others as well.
I am still not much over $1000 total for the project. I think I should swap everything over to my black '82 (nicer condition) and maybe see if Car Craft wants to write a blurb about it. A few years ago David Freiburger (working for Hot Rod) did a 440 swap into a Dart and ran a corrected high 12 for $2000. I am sure I'll hit 12's for less than $2000 pretty easily.
More to come....!
Linc
Concerning using a manual trans....
1) I was thinking that you had to load the engine to build boost.
With an MSD 2 step (wired with a clutch switch), you can use a rev limiting chip at a lower RPM, like 3000, on the line.
The MSD holds RPMs down by cutting spark. All that excess fuel and air burns in the exhaust, building GREAT boost on the line.
The throttle is wide open, the engine banging and rapping away terribly at 3000 and the boost is up. When you let out the clutch, the MSD two-step switches over to the other RPM chip you have selected (mine is 6000 currently in the MSD 6AL with no 2 step)
All of this is assuming I can get the Tremec 3550 trans installed, and the flywheel
: is the big obstacle stopping me there. I haven't decided whether I want to modify a stock 5.0 flywheel by:
a) redrilling crank holes and making neutral balance (I'm not too keen on the idea) or
b) getting a custom flywheel, which costs $$$$ I don't want to spend right now.
Having done all that, would need some serious upgrades to new slicks and maybe suspension tuning. If you see the video on page three of the thread, when I drop it into gear from neutral I have a fair amount of tire spin. I would have to fix that problem before going faster, or work on a softer launch. Getting more power to hook up would be the best idea.
2)
a) I also thought about optimizing the timing and mixture for the bottom end and retarding when boost comes on.
b) I think I saw steel wheels in one pic, maybe lighter wheels for better acceleration.
I did that. I recurved the distributor so I could get max initial advance and VERY LITTLE centrifugal advance. That's what got me that 13.59 at 103 run. There is still some room to play with it, but it is darn close.
This car has a lot of bottom end torque, believe it or not. Lighting up those 10" wide Hooter's Cup slicks is NO problem. I'll take it up against most any other automatic powered 200 out there. Maybe Mustang Geezer would get me off the line, but I would catch him QUICK! I wonder what his 60 foot times are.... I wonder what a lot of 200 powered cars' 60 foot times are....
Bottom end torque is a big problem with the brakes I have, since I can't get it to hold on the line!!
With my foot on the brakes and the parking brake pulled, I can get it to stall around 2600 RPM before building any boost, so the torque is there (sort of).
As far as the wheels, the little 14's up front on chrome modulars are pretty dang liight.
It would take some expensive Weld wheels and "skinnies" (3.5") to get much lighter.
3) Lots of similar ideas keep popping into and out of my head. Most of them cost large amounts of money for small gains and don't really have anything to do with the engine. It seems you have found the wall and it will take some creative thinking to get the ETs down without removing the restrictions in the induction and exhaust system.
This project has been inspirational and fun. For that I would like to say thanks. Gary Stubbs
That is always the problem - you reach a point where small gains cost large amounts.
NO, thanks to all of those who keep pushing me to keep the project going! The "experimenter" within me has been having a blast with this! And thanks to all those who offer ideas, and I am glad this project has been informative and entertaining to many others as well.
I am still not much over $1000 total for the project. I think I should swap everything over to my black '82 (nicer condition) and maybe see if Car Craft wants to write a blurb about it. A few years ago David Freiburger (working for Hot Rod) did a 440 swap into a Dart and ran a corrected high 12 for $2000. I am sure I'll hit 12's for less than $2000 pretty easily.
More to come....!
Linc
G
Guest
Guest
The best way I would get boost in my Merkur or GT Turbo out of the line is get to the line and stage, then brake torque at about 4000 RPM's with auto in 1st and keep it up until the lights go green. Wait a couple of lights before breaking the tires, and have a good rear end. Make your front brakes tighter, adjust them to almost grab a bit.
I would just say be careful to overstage or redlight. It spools like nuts because the turbo needs the load, though, and leaving the hole is sweet.
I learned it from my dad, he used to run his TF Dragster that way in the 60's, and I even have some videos of him doing just that, since supercharged is rpm=psi, turbo is rpm+load=psi (not actual math, just showing what a turbo requires that a supercharger doesnt, since a supercharger is direct driven, not dependant on exhaust pressure to build (load)).
Youll get enough load to get the turbo to about 75% of your full boost out of the line, and your rpms high enough to launch nicely. You wont even need to use your stall converter. Try it @ 3000, 4000, 2500, different launch rpm torques, to see which is optimal without too much tire spin.
Too high rpms = too much tire spin on the line
Too low rpms = not enough boost at launch.
The one video I saw was my dad, or my dads car w another driver do a brake torque out of the line, and a run of 6.5? @ 226, in 1971, beating a bigger national name dragster.
Shhh, dont tell anybody this secret.
I would just say be careful to overstage or redlight. It spools like nuts because the turbo needs the load, though, and leaving the hole is sweet.
I learned it from my dad, he used to run his TF Dragster that way in the 60's, and I even have some videos of him doing just that, since supercharged is rpm=psi, turbo is rpm+load=psi (not actual math, just showing what a turbo requires that a supercharger doesnt, since a supercharger is direct driven, not dependant on exhaust pressure to build (load)).
Youll get enough load to get the turbo to about 75% of your full boost out of the line, and your rpms high enough to launch nicely. You wont even need to use your stall converter. Try it @ 3000, 4000, 2500, different launch rpm torques, to see which is optimal without too much tire spin.
Too high rpms = too much tire spin on the line
Too low rpms = not enough boost at launch.
The one video I saw was my dad, or my dads car w another driver do a brake torque out of the line, and a run of 6.5? @ 226, in 1971, beating a bigger national name dragster.
Shhh, dont tell anybody this secret.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I don't understand what you just said. : : :
1) It is too hard to hold the parking brake and then drop it, so I "foot brake" only. I can get to 1700 RPM before the rear tires break loose. The rear drums are adjusted correctly, I checked several times. I just make too much torque on the line....and I REALLY need a trans brake.
2) I have no problems with the front brakes, they lock and hold fine. They are disks and have no adjustment. The cheapest and easiest solution would be a small shot of nitrous off the line.
: : : 1) It is too hard to hold the parking brake and then drop it, so I "foot brake" only. I can get to 1700 RPM before the rear tires break loose. The rear drums are adjusted correctly, I checked several times. I just make too much torque on the line....and I REALLY need a trans brake.
2) I have no problems with the front brakes, they lock and hold fine. They are disks and have no adjustment. The cheapest and easiest solution would be a small shot of nitrous off the line.
G
Guest
Guest
Essentially, a little spin is good, the load of the spin of the wheels creates exhaust pressure will spool the turbo before you even leave the line.
I brought up front brakes, because you want as little load on the back brakes (interfering with the spin), and let the fronts hold the car still while the backs are spinning with a little less brakes.
You can also adjust the rears to be a tiny bit little less, so its more front dependant for the brake torque launch, also so you wont wreck the rear end with the opposition the rear brakes are making.
Then green, and some spin, and youre already spooled ahead of time and good rpms (3000-3500), but enough to keep that boost way up there.
All it is is an educated brake torque, but man, it helps!
Yeah, a trans brake is cool too. Spray, oh please no. Thats cheatin'.
IMO
I brought up front brakes, because you want as little load on the back brakes (interfering with the spin), and let the fronts hold the car still while the backs are spinning with a little less brakes.
You can also adjust the rears to be a tiny bit little less, so its more front dependant for the brake torque launch, also so you wont wreck the rear end with the opposition the rear brakes are making.
Then green, and some spin, and youre already spooled ahead of time and good rpms (3000-3500), but enough to keep that boost way up there.
All it is is an educated brake torque, but man, it helps!
Yeah, a trans brake is cool too. Spray, oh please no. Thats cheatin'.
IMO
A
Anonymous
Guest
Oh, you mean have a little rear tire wheel spin while on the line?? Hmmm.....that seems kind of cheesy, but if it works, then hey....
G
Guest
Guest
My dad did it all the time in the pro Top Fueler racing in the 60s.
Yeah, some people though it was weird, but he made some great runs and got that supercharger spinning. Whatever it takes to win.
If you do it, just dont red light. Keep it staged and not over staged. Thats where "a little more brakes in front" helps.
Plus youre tearin up the tires ready for the launch.
Its just one of his tricks he did even in the early 70's.
Worked for me too.
Yeah, some people though it was weird, but he made some great runs and got that supercharger spinning. Whatever it takes to win.
If you do it, just dont red light. Keep it staged and not over staged. Thats where "a little more brakes in front" helps.
Plus youre tearin up the tires ready for the launch.
Its just one of his tricks he did even in the early 70's.
Worked for me too.
Actually, now that Joe mentions it, I've seen a few launches where the tyres would spin a little before time to depart. Not really fast; I suppose the front brakes were doing slightly more of the holding.
As someone with the reflexes of a garden slug on sedatives, I am impressed by anyone who can drag race effectively.
As someone with the reflexes of a garden slug on sedatives, I am impressed by anyone who can drag race effectively.
G
Guest
Guest
Funny Adam, cause Im an ant on crack thats avoiding from being stepped on. (think, and youll get the picture).
I gotta build me a car someday. Like a REAL car.
Much respect for Lincs and Nick and others who have been doing it.
I gotta build me a car someday. Like a REAL car.
Much respect for Lincs and Nick and others who have been doing it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I just found out I am as fast as '04 GTO and '04 Mach 1!!
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/f ... n_gtotest/
GTO Mach 1
60 ft. 2.24 2.15
330 ft. 5.89 5.79
1/8 e.t. 8.84 8.77
1/8 mph 83.82 82.94
1/4 e.t. 13.52 13.47
1/4 mph 105.57 104.25
As far as updates, I have been SO BUSY I haven't even had time to pull the engine yet. I just really have a lot on my plate right now. Will keep you all posted, though.
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/f ... n_gtotest/
GTO Mach 1
60 ft. 2.24 2.15
330 ft. 5.89 5.79
1/8 e.t. 8.84 8.77
1/8 mph 83.82 82.94
1/4 e.t. 13.52 13.47
1/4 mph 105.57 104.25
As far as updates, I have been SO BUSY I haven't even had time to pull the engine yet. I just really have a lot on my plate right now. Will keep you all posted, though.
Linc's,
Hope you don't get too distracted with that bent 6 stuff.
We need you to get back inline.
My progress has been slow also.
P.S. I would use the O-wheel for your daily and the P-trim for your faster Saturday night special.
Jim
Hope you don't get too distracted with that bent 6 stuff.
We need you to get back inline.
My progress has been slow also.
P.S. I would use the O-wheel for your daily and the P-trim for your faster Saturday night special.
Jim
A
Anonymous
Guest
drag-200stang":35hk2t8y said:Hope you don't get too distracted with that bent 6 stuff.
P.S. I would use the O-wheel for your daily and the P-trim for your faster Saturday night special.
Hmm.....where have you been reading lately??
That's good advice, and along the lines of what I was thinking, too. I am not looking for big power on the V6 car, so it will get the O-trim.
The drag-only straight six wil get the P trim. Thanks!!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Wow, this thread has hit 11,000 views!!
I'll try to have the new engine together shortly, still very busy .....
I'll try to have the new engine together shortly, still very busy .....
Somebody needs to condense these results and make some stickies!!
Id info for real turbos and warnings for wanna be turbos(SSAUTOJUNCK)
Maybe import some maps and stick them also.
This seems to be a growing subculture within the inline six comunity 8)
Thanks for the inspiration Linc, Will(altho we all know Kelly is the real hero and you are just the mech ), and all of the others who have shared. You have all shared and it would be nice to have this info handy without having to dig.
Linc you have been quiet lately and I can't wait to see what you have planned.
Id info for real turbos and warnings for wanna be turbos(SSAUTOJUNCK)
Maybe import some maps and stick them also.
This seems to be a growing subculture within the inline six comunity 8)
Thanks for the inspiration Linc, Will(altho we all know Kelly is the real hero and you are just the mech
), and all of the others who have shared. You have all shared and it would be nice to have this info handy without having to dig.Linc you have been quiet lately and I can't wait to see what you have planned.
Linc's 200
Well-known member
I'll probably start a new thread (with a link to this thread included) when "Version 2.0" gets closer.
- Status