Any issues with early CI heads?

[Invectivus]

I have an early, unserialized CI head. I don’t recall issues specific to the early prod runs, though I know some heads have had pushrod geometry issues depending on the run.

Anyone know something I don’t?

 

[drag-200stang]

Be careful on enlarging the push rod holes, people have hit water in doing so.

 

[Invectivus]

I haven't seated it on a block yet, So I have no idea of the alignment ATM. But yeah, that was the post I was thinking of, where they sleeved the pushrod hole. that's a thing I hope I don't run into. I need some work on it, I just want to verify any issues to remediate all at once rather than make several trips to the shop.

 

[wcol]

I bought a cylinder head back in 2008. Been On car for about 10k.. No issues. You must have had one of the very first cylinder heads. I do not recall anything about pushrod geometry issues.. I do know classic inlines Valves, that they sold with head, were not long enough, causing you to use 1.5 rockers or buy longer valves to accomadate different rockers.. Also the single springs that came with heads were not good, and came with no spring seats...

 

[Ponycarresurection]

I have a CI aluminum head # 035. I ran it 10 minutes on my 200 build before the lobes on the cam rounded off and the engine quit running. My fault, trying to break in a new Clay Smith cam and lifters with dual valve springs. I bought a 65 long block with good compression, adjustable rockers. I put the block on an engine test stand, connected all the systems and tested them, everything is functional. There is 120 lbs compression in each cylinder, 30 psi oil pressue at ifle, 50 psi at 250o rpms. No smoke no knocks or clatters. Now I have pulled the stock head and am preparing to install the aluminum head, 4bbl intake and headers. I am keeping the stock, all ready broke in cam snd lifters. What fo you all think of this plan?

 

[pmuller9]

I think you should run a solid lifter cam and get the solid lifters that have the EDM oiling hole in the lifter face.

Which Clay Smith cam are you using?

 

[drag-200stang]

For informational purposes, may not apply to you.. The old stock cam is broken in, and each lifter mated to each lobe, if they are not kept in the same order, you run the risk of lobe failure. That is because of old machining equipment was not that accurate and the bore of the lifters will be angled or spaced different and the cam also.

 

[Ponycarresurection]

I think you should run a solid lifter cam and get the solid lifters that have the EDM oiling hole in the lifter face.

Which Clay Smith cam are you using?

252/256 112 LC I have a new Clay Smith cam with 110 LC. A bit afraid to use it. I’m too small to fail.

 

[Ponycarresurection]

For informational purposes, may not apply to you.. The old stock cam is broken in, and each lifter mated to each lobe, if they are not kept in the same order, you run the risk of lobe failure. That is because of old machining equipment was not that accurate and the bore of the lifters will be angled or spaced different and the cam also.

Thank you. I will keep tht lifters and pushrods in order.

 

[awasson]

252/256 112 LC I have a new Clay Smith cam with 110 LC. A bit afraid to use it. I’m too small to fail.

I think in this day and age that a camshaft needs to be broken in with OEM springs and then swapped to the heavier springs after breaking it in. Also make sure that the springs are of a recommended spring rate and pressure from the manufacturer or less.

I broke my Clay Smith camshaft in with the OEM springs and will be installing the heavier ones later this year.

On a related note, last year I had a chat with the guy at Clay Smith who designed the H-6474-0-B camshaft and he said he designed it for the Classic Inlines head. He was pretty interested in how it worked in a log head with a Weber because that was not the intent of the design. It should work really nicely in yours but then again, I would think the stock camshaft will work really well too.

 

[Wayne clark]

I have a CI aluminum head # 035. I ran it 10 minutes on my 200 build before the lobes on the cam rounded off and the engine quit running. My fault, trying to break in a new Clay Smith cam and lifters with dual valve springs. I bought a 65 long block with good compression, adjustable rockers. I put the block on an engine test stand, connected all the systems and tested them, everything is functional. There is 120 lbs compression in each cylinder, 30 psi oil pressue at ifle, 50 psi at 250o rpms. No smoke no knocks or clatters. Now I have pulled the stock head and am preparing to install the aluminum head, 4bbl intake and headers. I am keeping the stock, all ready broke in cam snd lifters. What fo you all think of this plan?

For what its worth i say put a 2300 Sniper on it along with Hyper spark dist . Put a new timing chain in or at a minumin check it for slack then replace if needs be . I have been running the Sniper on my stock small log headed 200 for 6 years . Put a Paxton Supercharger on it about 2 years back . Both are excellent bolt on power adders . If you use the Hyper Spark try 12 degrees for start,24 for idle . I run 34 for cruise & 28 degrees for wot .

 

[awasson]

For what its worth i say put a 2300 Sniper on it along with Hyper spark dist . Put a new timing chain in or at a minumin check it for slack then replace if needs be . I have been running the Sniper on my stock small log headed 200 for 6 years . Put a Paxton Supercharger on it about 2 years back . Both are excellent bolt on power adders . If you use the Hyper Spark try 12 degrees for start,24 for idle . I run 34 for cruise & 28 degrees for wot .

Your ignition timing info is pretty invaluable and lines up closely with my observations.

This should be on a sticky somewhere for anyone who's trying to at least get into the ballpark on timing their L6 200:

• 12 degrees for start
• 24 for idle
• 34 for cruise
• 28 degrees for wot

 

[Wayne clark]

Your ignition timing info is pretty invaluable and lines up closely with my observations.

This should be on a sticky somewhere for anyone who's trying to at least get into the ballpark on timing their L6 200:

• 12 degrees for start
• 24 for idle
• 34 for cruise
• 28 degrees for wot

I used those settings for a while before i put the Paxton on . Worked fine . It was pretty amazeing how much the eng smoothed out idleing useing that 24 setting . Keep in mind my eng is stock other than a few bolt on power adders .
On a small log head .

I hope it works for guys unlike me that have did the cam change,better heads with roller rockers . The good thing is if all the information has been imput in the handheld it should fire up & idle at the needed rpm for cam break in . .

I feel certain you would have to do some tuneing thru the hand held . But even if everything is out , if it cranks it should idle where you set it.
I wish someone had a dist. That could control the timeing like the hyper spark that was usable with a carb .

 

[awasson]

I used those settings for a while before i put the Paxton on . Worked fine . It was pretty amazeing how much the eng smoothed out idleing useing that 24 setting . Keep in mind my eng is stock other than a few bolt on power adders .
On a small log head .

I hope it works for guys unlike me that have did the cam change,better heads with roller rockers . The good thing is if all the information has been imput in the handheld it should fire up & idle at the needed rpm for cam break in . .

I feel certain you would have to do some tuneing thru the hand held . But even if everything is out , if it cranks it should idle where you set it.
I wish someone had a dist. That could control the timeing like the hyper spark that was usable with a carb .

Off topic: I have been using ported vacuum on my weber carb ever since I built the engine and spent about a year just dialling in the timing. If I went too high on idle, it would ping at low revs cruising. I finally settled on 14° initial which would jump to 24° when the carb came off idle and onto the mains. It runs really nicely at 24°.

A while back, I was reading the docs that came with the carb from Clifford Performance and Larry at Clifford wrote a note that these engines were built before EPA regulations necessitated ported vacuum so just plug your vacuum advance into the log. After all my experimenting and reading some other opinions on the topic, I decided that I would be doing that. Your post earlier put a fire under my butt to do that.

This afternoon, I added a vacuum splitter on the log and dug out the old metal vacuum line and plumbed it in. Night and day! Low speed driving is improved and idle is a major improvement. It runs a bit cooler too.

It's smoother and quieter. I can lower my RPM down to 500 RPM and it'll idle but my cam is a bit too choppy and it resonates inside the car. I've got it idling at 750 RPM and it is smooth, quiet and comes off idle with a blip on the throttle.

14° for start
24° for idle
28° for WOT
38° for Cruise

Thanks for the encouragement. Big difference.

 

[Wayne clark]

Off topic: I have been using ported vacuum on my weber carb ever since I built the engine and spent about a year just dialling in the timing. If I went too high on idle, it would ping at low revs cruising. I finally settled on 14° initial which would jump to 24° when the carb came off idle and onto the mains. It runs really nicely at 24°.

A while back, I was reading the docs that came with the carb from Clifford Performance and Larry at Clifford wrote a note that these engines were built before EPA regulations necessitated ported vacuum so just plug your vacuum advance into the log. After all my experimenting and reading some other opinions on the topic, I decided that I would be doing that. Your post earlier put a fire under my butt to do that.

This afternoon, I added a vacuum splitter on the log and dug out the old metal vacuum line and plumbed it in. Night and day! Low speed driving is improved and idle is a major improvement. It runs a bit cooler too.

It's smoother and quieter. I can lower my RPM down to 500 RPM and it'll idle but my cam is a bit too choppy and it resonates inside the car. I've got it idling at 750 RPM and it is smooth, quiet and comes off idle with a blip on the throttle.

14° for start
24° for idle
28° for WOT
38° for Cruise

Thanks for the encouragement. Big difference.

I' m glad it helped even 1 person . It's been a really steep learning curve. I put that Sniper on when i was 67 & i have to say it's been all i had hoped it would be .
I'm 73 now and it's still clicking .