BA falcon engine

[bubba22349]

:wow: thanks again bmbm40, there is all the info on how it can be used with a 5.0 so than it's also going to fit on a 250 or 300. Also made me remember that I once was able to drive an 05 Mustang with 4.6 3 valve? And i guess it would have had a 5R55 trans. Was invited to Ford track day at Pomona where they had all the new 2005 models show cased and set up different driving courses. Got to drive two 2005 Mustangs on the drag strip course, equipped with that 5 speed auto and also a 5 or 6 speed stick (don't remember which) but the auto car was faster and shifted great. I don't know if those cars were totally stock or moded some but they were fun rides. :thanks:

 

[bmbm40]

Ford 5R55S Automatic 5 Speed Transmission
1st gear 3.22 to 1
2nd gear 2.29 to 1
3rd gear 1.55 to 1
4th gear 1.00 to 1
5th gear .71 to 1
(This is a late model Ford Mustang Transmission)
* not to be confused with 5R55E, 5R55N, 5R55W they have different gear ratios


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... z22jR2DYza

Good ratios. Not sure what shifter to use or what it would cost and have to add the controller cost , bh and some other misc.

 

[wagon]

Note Well: The speedo binacles for the 1979-1992 X-series Falcons and Aussie 1980-1985 Bronco/F100 were made by VDO Australia, and run off a dead simple 10 plip per rev Hall Effect (HE), not VR, but it still uses a cable style adaptor to run it, so you can use any trans up to XF and convert it to cable. The VDO HE unit fits any cable unit if you use the XD-XF stuff, but it wont run the required EEC VR input signal. You can put the electronic reading unit into any thing with a mechanical speedo. Everything transmission wise before the 1979 XD was cable, including the 1977-1983 Cortina TE/TF and the 1973- 1979 F100 was still cable.

XD/XE had a different sender unit and therefore a different instrument cluster to the XF. The senders LOOK the same but the part numbers are different and the frequency output is different. If anyone's interested I can dig up the specs. and post them.

 

[xctasy]

I'm keen. Especially the wave form details if you've got any info. I got a scope downstairs for igntions, but you can use it on trans pin outs without too much bother.

I've just spent 2 grand on getting a proprierty program from a real smart dude in Hamilton, and with it my variable reluctor Fox Mustang unit can come into work in a digital data logging world. Everyone else seams to have problems with the VDO unit on X-series Falcons when they try to use a stock single rail, top loader or C9 or C10 behind an EFI 5.0. An XF one should have the required EEC4 wave form as a VR Fox, but I'm not certain.



It polls any sensor, Digital or Analogue, and measures the pulse, and you can even graph it if you want to.

I've done lots of work calibrating speedos of late, and I'm confident enough to use a standalone wheel sensor if I had to. Nothings really a bother. What is a bother is people not being able to figure out what a stock EEC really needs to function. The Fox car stuff is really good for a cable drive, really smart. The VDO is a uniquely Aussie-German variation, and its simplicity gets people stuck!

I set up three different sensors for the Stang, a stock VR Fox (okay for EEC 3,4 and 5), a stock Tripmeter unit (rally car) and I'm using the stock Fox C3 automatic sensor (Cortina/Escort/Capri mechanical).

I have an XD S-pack binacle down stairs and when I had my XE GL, I was always gonna hook it up. Love the simple sensors and sheet compound (plastic!) of the last x bodies.

 

[wagon]

The XD-BA speedo sensors have a square wave output. So, no drawing of that required. But, like I said, the XD/XE units are different to everything else.... which is a pain when you want to use a later model sensor with the old XE instruments like I have. The XD/XE SPEEDO can be calibrated to just about anything +/-50% but the ODO is locked to the sensor frequency. I got around it when I put the 4-speed LE box behind the crossflow by using the correct (XF-on) sensor with the correct drive gear for my diff, running that signal to the trans ecu, then cutting the VSS wire to the instruments and modifying (by lowering the frequency) before feeding that into the unmodified speedo. I can now calibrate it for whatever I want, within reason.

I had a nasty one a while back; customer had a VS dunnydoor with a 5-speed BW manual instead of the standard Getrag. The speedo didn't work because the Getrag had 10x the output frequency AND it was a variable-reluctance output. I built a box that converted the 'hall sensor/square wave' signal to 10x the frequency with a simulated (read: near enough, but rough) AC 'variable-reluctance' waveform. The car ran better, didn't stall and the speedo worked. A lot of effort for a Holden.

So, if required, a VR-style signal can be simulated to trick an ecu that requires it. But, you know what? I'd bet the problem with the EEC4 stuff that needs a VSS input is not the signal type but its frequency is probably out of range and the ecu gets upset.

 

[xctasy]

My equipment can poll any sensor, and it counts waves, and can determine the scale of the waveform if required. This morning, my Honeywell Hall Effect sensors worked the first time because they needed a 150 mA current draw, so I stoll my old XE S pack pannel vans Bosch Relay from its Marcell lights, and another 12 volt sensor from my brother in law at Pace Electrical, and hooked it up to a 7 volt out put so it wouldn't kill my 7 volt max data logger. The result was from a sensor which didn't switch, it made a nice 4.75 to 0 volt square wave, just perfect for the data logger to count the bump pluses. The key is that some forms can be fiddled with by a bridge. Just making one up now for my two Honeywell 103sr13-a2's. Proper pain in the butt, as they have NPN and PNP transitors and I had to buy both to be sure I was gonna get a result. Then I had to identify the emitter, base and collector. For eight whole days, my road roughness machine wouldn't work because the LED's I bought had diodes in them, and it messed with the sensor and resistor bridge.

I have to build the third Sink sensor bridge, the third page down on this memorandum PK 88782, Issue 3 index doc

http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.php?ci_id=50343

Those diagrams can get you out of the crap, especially since they use common Jaycar bits, the 2R3638 and 2R2222 are around, a dime a dozen. So if your getting weird results, load the sensors up if they are designed to run a load in the orginal install.

When I log the sensors, I run a Basic style script file, and just fuge it uo and down till I can load the right function or K value on my data logger, and then duplicate a circuit using an XELTEK universal programmer. http://www.digitalgraphics.com.au/xeltek/index.html

If the sensors don't produce a nice form for digital or analogue, they won't poll, so you get dead signals like one sensor 4 and 5 this morning. Especially in a noisy environment like my car, which has two batteries, a 300w inverter, printer, two data loggers, sensors from a hole to breakfast...So if you load the sensors up, the electronics have a nice hard wall to work against.

 

[wagon]

Note Well: The speedo binacles for the 1979-1992 X-series Falcons and Aussie 1980-1985 Bronco/F100 were made by VDO Australia, and run off a dead simple 10 plip per rev Hall Effect (HE), not VR, but it still uses a cable style adaptor to run it, so you can use any trans up to XF and convert it to cable. The VDO HE unit fits any cable unit if you use the XD-XF stuff, but it wont run the required EEC VR input signal. You can put the electronic reading unit into any thing with a mechanical speedo. Everything transmission wise before the 1979 XD was cable, including the 1977-1983 Cortina TE/TF and the 1973- 1979 F100 was still cable.

XD/XE had a different sender unit and therefore a different instrument cluster to the XF. The senders LOOK the same but the part numbers are different and the frequency output is different. If anyone's interested I can dig up the specs. and post them.

I had a look at my files today.

XD & XE...... 80Hz = 60km/hr
XF-AU........ 102Hz = 60km/hr

The driven gears are the same regardless of model.

 

[xctasy]

nice....i'll have to check what my VR Fox does in comparison. The scope Ihave downstairs should measure it if I jack up the axles.

Neat stuff there, thanks again!

 

[xctasy]

Ah. I'm not sure of the post 2002 BA engines, which is the topic of the conversation, but the 1982 to late 1984 XE Falcon was BMW 3 and 7 series Bosch Motronic LE-II on 4.1 liter X-flow, and it is different to the Ford EEC's normal US and Aussie '79-'02 8000 pulse per mile system. The XD/XE lookes to be a 6000 pulse per mile sensor. It is, after all, a non O2 sensored leaded fuel engine, and doesn't have a close loop feature, nor employ a VSS. Thats why it doesn't follow normal US Ford electronic practice. :wow:

The EEC III, EEC IV and most EEC V's require an 8000 pulse per mile vehicle speed sensor signal from the PSOM (speedo module), which is just like all other EEC-IV equipped vehicles

Other later EEC V applications use a 16000 or 40000 pulse per mile VSS signal.

My Fox has a Ford VRS (variable reluctance sensor) speed sensor, an 8 pulse per revolution VRS sensor which is conditioned by the output shaft from the transmission, and mouned on the speedo cable as per standard Fox practice, to allow the EFI, cruise control or fuel consumption meter which became Fox options on other models to work.

For the rare occasions that the Thunderbird, Lincoln Continetal or LSC or Fox came with an EEC III 5.0 CFI, or the more common EEC IV 2.3, 3.8 or 5.0, the speedo expects to see a set amount of speedo cable revs at any speed. The old mechanical speedos by GM, Ford, and Chrysler use a set C factor for odometer and speed, so any Fox sensor is preconditioned in the following manner.

An 8 pulse per revolution VRS sensor on a 5.0 auto with 2.73 axle LSC or Tbird or Mustang with 215/60 15 tires with 728 revs per mile would be seeing an 1.365 overall ratio , as it has 8 teeth driving, a maroon16 teeth gear driven, and at 60 mph (96.6 km.h) jammed in non over drive third, it would be turning the 8 pulse per rev speedo shaft at 7949.76 pulses a mile. Or at any speed, in any gear, since the speedo sensor only measures drive shaft speed, not engine speed. So 728 wheel turns per mile times 2.73 final drive turns each wheel turn times the 8/16 drive to speedo gear ratio, times 8 pulses per speedo shaft rev.

Speedo Gear = Drive Gear Teeth X Axle Ratio X Tire Revolutions Per Mile / 1,001

final drive (axle) ratio in 1:1 top divided by (driven speedo gear/drive teeth)=1.50 overall ratio required at 667 revs per mile or 30.22181" of loaded tire
final drive (axle) ratio in 1:1 top divided by (driven speedo gear/drive teeth)=1.25 overall ratio required at 801 revs per mile or 25.1846" of loaded tire
final drive (axle) ratio in 1:1 top divided by (driven speedo gear/drive teeth)=1.00 overall ratio requiredat 1000 revs per mile or 20.1484" of loaded tire

Some trucks (the F450/550's, not the F-150/250/350) have good old iron E4OD extension housing with an out put shaft speed sensor which don't get screwed up with reverse or low range, and you can condition them to suit EEC 3, 4 and most EEC V with a custom 3teeth or factory 18 teeth reluctor. This result is a perfect 8000 pulse per mile (PPM) signal to feed to any of the normal EEC 3, 4 and 5's and also the Ford Cruise Control module.

 

[xrwagon]

Not sure if this helps, my friend has a 1970 XW Falcon wagon with a Turbo Barra motor, it made 680 at the treads in a FG Falcon XR6, he brought the whole car, gearbox wise it runs a T400, my Clevo engine builder builds Barra 6 Turbos for a living, he is on Facebook, under Tony Bellert, his base tune is 800 rwhp and has a couple at 1000 rwhp, the ZF type gearboxes will milkshake themselves with these power, i live 1 hr from a gearbox conversion guy who is Australian renown Mal Wood, these engines would need a Tremec gearbox, he does the conversions and coutnless others, check his site and then maybe apply this to your own country. I have easy access to a 1000 HP motor, sounds good when you read it fast but the reality is my friends detuned turbo barra at 550 hp first pass at Warwick on the eighth was a high 10 second run, i am in the 12.5’s, he eventually ran a high 9, now my motor has 70 hp at the treads roughly, he has 550, power is nothing if it goes up in smoke.

 

[wagon]

I've run low 10's at Warwick in my old POS. I have too much traction, not enough power.

 

[xrwagon]

We could know each other. Were you at any of the recent meets? At Warwick?

 

[wagon]

We could know each other. Were you at any of the recent meets? At Warwick?

I was a year ago. Missed it this year.