Best head gasket for boost

[kirkallen143]

Just adding to this, last Saturday I just blew my forth headgasket (Felpro) on the stock 200 w/ a single garrett "super 60".

Why? Here's what contributed to the factor:
1) 15psi (Felpro can handle b/tw 10-12psi)
2) 28 degrees total timing (my timing retard was non-functional)
3) 93 pump gas
4) 10% meth/ 90% H2O injected at 7psi (even though my AFR was 11.5:1 I could still hear denotation)

I did manage to poke the bronco back home. Time to get that head off again. Thought I let y'all know.

Kirk

the killer was the timing. no boost retard

Yes sir you are right. I had unhooked the timing retard for some reason and forgot to hook it back up. Only blew the headgasket at no. 6 on the pass side...whew.

Kirk

 

[gravelrash]

thats exactly the same place mine blew before i learnt about boost retard. tough lesson that one, as it smashed the ring lands of all 6 pistons as well.

 

[Broncitis]

The more I read about boost, the more I realize that temperature of motor, temperature of boost charge air and of course timing have a significant effect on performance with boost, I will be glad when I can purchase an MLS gasket for my project and not have that concern in the back of my mind.

 

[Quick 8]

Anybody have any news on the MLS gaskets yet? The Classic Inlines website lists some from Cometic as "Coming Soon".

Is this for real? And if so, are all of the thicknesses listed going to be available? (.038, .050, .086).

If anyone knows if these are really going to come out soon, please speak up!!

Thanks.
-Jim

 

[Broncitis]

Most hate to speak for anothers business, why don't you call and ask him yourself.

 

[Quick 8]

I guess I was hoping he would respond here so that everyone will have the same information.

 

[Anlushac11]

I'm eyeballin that copper sheet head gasket pretty intensely.

I will be taking my block back in to shop Thursday to get it rehoned or rebored and Im gonna ask about getting head bolt holes bored and tapped for 1/2" and block O-ringed.

 

[gravelrash]

We never had any luck with the copper spray on a Fel-Pro or Corteco gasket. It seemed to make it worse by allowing the gasket to slide (ie pushout ) easier.

If you using 1/2" studs, then 100ft/lbs. works just fine, but for a 7/16" head bolt or stud that's to much.
I think absolute max. for a 7/16" is 85ft/lbs.

Later,
Will

Will,
funny you say that about the copper spray, mine seems to do the same thing. What do you use on the gasket especially around the rear 2 water jackets.

 

[Does10s]

Will,
funny you say that about the copper spray, mine seems to do the same thing. What do you use on the gasket especially around the rear 2 water jackets.

The best stuff we've found to use is called "The Right Stuff". It's a silicon based substance that comes in either a short "caulking gun" tube or a "cheese wiz" can. Get the caulking gun one. I get it from Checker.

After cleaning all surfaces (head, block and both sides of the copper gasket) put a thin coating of the stuff on the block deck. Cover the entire surface spreading it out as evenly, and as thinly as possible. You don't want it to be so thick that it squishes out everywhere.
Set the gasket in place.
Coat the topside of the gasket just like you did the block.
Install two studs to help align the head.
Install the head.
Torque to spec.

The stuff is so good, that one of these days, I'm going to run an engine without the head studs installed! Just for fun of course!
Later,
Will

 

[Anlushac11]

With a copper head gasket, O-ringed block, and "The Right Stuff" how well does it seal?

Any problems with water seepage anymore?

 

[JGTurbo]

I've had really good luck using Hylomar with copper head gaskets. Hylomar is resistant to all engine fluids (including gasoline). The Right Stuff is awesome at sealing oil and coolant, but it can't stand up to gas. However, I've never tried it on a head gasket before, so I can't say how it compares to Hylomar. Sounds like it worked great for you, Will. Just thought I'd toss another option out there.

If you were to make MLS gaskets yourself, you would have to find a way to emboss raised patterns on all layers. Flat pieces of metal won't do you any good. Homemade copper head gaskets would probably be a better choice along with O-Ringing the block.

 

[Does10s]

Seepage is just about non-existant.

By that I mean this last weekend of racing, we were getting just a little bit of oil. The reason we think is that we were really trying to put "The Right Stuff" on very thin.
So maybe a little thicker would work better. In the past we did put it on thicker and we didn't ever have any leakage.

I'll have to investgate the Hylomar stuff in the future!
Later,
Will

 

[Anlushac11]

Seepage is just about non-existant.

By that I mean this last weekend of racing, we were getting just a little bit of oil. The reason we think is that we were really trying to put "The Right Stuff" on very thin.
So maybe a little thicker would work better. In the past we did put it on thicker and we didn't ever have any leakage.

I'll have to investgate the Hylomar stuff in the future!
Later,
Will

Thanks, at this point I am committed to the copper and O-rings irregardless so I was just asking to see if its something I am going to have to be worried about and removing and resealing head gasket often.

 

[JGTurbo]

Here's how I did my copper gaskets:

.027" thick copper
.032 stainless wire
sealed with Hylomar

(its not a ford six but the idea is the same)

 

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Ian,

The only reason that I could see that it wouldn't work is that the outer SS layers on the Cometic ones anyway, have slightly raised areas around the water jackets to help with sealing.

Later,
Will

I had Cometic make me two MLS gasket blanks ($220). But the wouldn't emboss a fire ring around the cylinders, which they said was essential for sealing, So I built my own three-piece stamping die to emboss them myself, after I de-laminated them.
Alas it didn't work too well.

Also, a MLS gasket requires a very smooth head and deck surface whereas a composition gasket requires a comparatively rough surface to work. That may have been part of the reason the MLS did not work for me.

Copper gaskets seep for me too, necessitating draining the block after shutdown.

 

[Does10s]

JGTurbo,
I just looked into the Hylomer material. Sounds like it's the correct stuff for what we need.
But they are proud of it! $32.95 for the "Racing Formula" for only a 3oz. tube. But according to the datasheet it'll cover 13sqr/ft.
So that should easily cover a bunch of gaskets.
Here's a link.
http://www.hylomar-usa.com/_resources/_html/products.html

I might order up some and give it a try!
Later,
Will

 

[73GreenMachine]

I'm yet to blow the Fel pro gasket in my motor and I'm running 20lbs, 444hp and 497 ft lbs to the ground at 18 lbs, so I should be around 470hp and over 500ft lbs now, I detailed how I install head gaskets on this form long ago,

The post mentioned above sounds useful, I tried searching for it with no luck, has anyone else found it?

 

[JGTurbo]

I used the Hylomar 3 oz tube when I did mine. I would definitely go aerosol next time. The stuff is acetone based so it tends to dry quickly and get sort of lumpy when trying to spread it out evenly. The good thing about it being acetone based, however, is you can wipe it off clean with acetone and a rag. Check out this link:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/ ... ts-_-2VUU9

The can even has a picture of a head gasket on it!

 

[JGTurbo]

Note about Hylomar: Be sure to follow the directions and let the sealant dry completely before assembly. It's seems kind of odd, but if you assemble it wet it will leak.

 

[drag-200stang]

I like the Felpro print-o-seal gasket best as far as commercial gaskets go but they won't hold up forever under high boost.

Its generally accepted that the Cometc MLS gaskets hold up well under boost and I think it would be easier to use than the copper gasket and o-ring set up.

I called Cometic and for $212 I can get the 4.0 Barra MLS gasket in the bore size I need 3.70 (94 ml) 93 ml is stock and .060 thickness (.040 is stock). He said that was the largest diameter they could go (94 ml).

From looking at drawings of the gasket, it looks like it could be made to work on our engines with some modifications to some of the water ports and around the lifter openings. Some silicone gasket maker would have to be used because of missing gasket in that area but being a low pressure area I don't see it being a big deal. I'm mostly concerned about combustion pressure and I see no problem in that area. Its my understanding that the bore spacing and bolt pattern hasn't changed from the early 6's. This in not something I would suggest for a daily driver but for the weekend high horsepower guys this may be the solution. Any thoughts?