Cliffy Headers and Starter. Now I know what you meant

[gotta61comet]

I had had lots of warnings from the good and knowledgable folks in this forum, and now I can see what they mean. I knew these headers came close to the post on the starter, but that is rediculous. I guess I need to pull the starter out and shorten the post.
When smoke rises from the cable to the starter, it can't be good.
Has anyone talked to Clofford about this? Could it be a design flaw or an undocumented feature? :roll:

Jim

 

[Falcon62]

Has anyone talked to Clofford about this? Could it be a design flaw or an undocumented feature?

Yep, I did three or four years ago and even sent them very good pictures of the interference. Here are the pics: http://home.centurytel.net/fordfan/Falc ... eader.html
Their response? "We'll look into it and get back to you." Never heard another word from them. That was my last purchase from Clifford Performance.

Their jig is screwed up and they won't listen to those of us who know it.

I ended up shortening the post by replacing the split washer with a star washer and it's still tight. My next head will get an offset grind on the exhaust flange to gain additional clearance. Shouldn't have to do that though.

 

[Junk-Falcon]

ppp

 

[AzCoupe]

Pacemaker did a great job when designing theirs. Next time, think FSPP. I don't generally plug my own products in the forum, but couldn't resist this one.

 

[Junk-Falcon]

yep

 

[Falcon62]

Pacemaker did a great job when designing theirs. Next time, think FSPP. I don't generally plug my own products in the forum, but couldn't resist this one.

You're right Mike, but FSPP didn't exist when I bought my header. I sure wish Clifford would get their head out, but no matter, your products and service are superior anyway. 8)

 

[addo]

What about changing to a gear reduction starter?

 

[mustang6]

Wow Mike, now THAT is clearance! It looks like you could even change the starter with the headers installed, is that true? I once replaced the solenoid/plunger assembly on my starter while installed behind the headers because it was less trouble than removing the whole header to replace the starter.

 

[addo]

Scott, you sure can. I've done it a few occasions, and was one of the original agitators for Mike to get Pacemaker (he was considering Genie at the time). One set of Pacemakers here, lasted four engines and three cars.

Adam.

 

[CobraSix]

Yes you can...I've done it a few times. in fact, I installed my headers, then my starter.

Slade

 

[gotta61comet]

AZCoupe,
If I had known about the forum BEFORE I bought the Cliffy, I'd be Pacemaker header. Fortunately, that is my ONLY Cliffy purchase.
Will the Pacemaker work with a 61 Comet?

Junk-Falcon,
I tried getting the starter from NAPA with the tab on the end plate, but it seems harder to get than the one with the post for a 2 bolt starter. NAPA had a hard enough time getting the the right 2 bolt one as well.

 

[MandarinaRacing]

Hey Mike maybe you could use those pics in your webpage
Brand "X" vs. Pacemaker

Alex

 

[TheDude]

Yes you can...I've done it a few times. in fact, I installed my headers, then my starter.

As did I... I had to remove the starter several times though but the headers made the removal/installation easy.

 

[AzCoupe]

Will the Pacemaker work with a 61 Comet?

No problem.

Hey Mike maybe you could use those pics in your webpage
Brand "X" vs. Pacemaker

I thought about it, but decided it wasn't cool to knock the compeditors products. I do have pics of the Pacemaker's clearance posted on my website.

I have a local company (Pacesetter - not to be confused with Pacemaker) working on a new design for me. They will be offered in dual outs only, but will be a shortie style version of the Pacemakers (to fit all applications).

The other area I addressed was the number one tube. While the Pacemakers offer better starter clearance, the number one tube extends out farther than on a Cliffy header, which gives less clearance for alt/AC applications (see pics). So in that respect, the Cliify header does have and advantage.

When installing my triple SU's, the front carb barely cleared the number one tube when using the Pacemakers, but was much better with the Cliffy header. The new design will take care of that issue. I talked to them yesterday, they said the proto type is taking a little longer than they expected, but should be ready in a couple more weeks. 8)

I am dropping the old FSPP headers, in favor of the new design by Pacesetter, but will still offer the Pacemakers. And I am adding Hooker Headers to my product line this weekend. This way, no matter which style and/or application that is required, I'll have it covered.


In this photo, you can see how close the front tube is to the alt with the Pacemakers, but remember I have an aftermarket A/C unit installed. If the alt was in its stock location, it wouldn't be an issue.

This photo shows the better clearance when using the Cliffy header.

This one shows how close the number one tube is to the front carb (and the alt) when using the Pacemaker.

This photo is of a shortened Pacemaker that was cut just after the collectors. The pipes were then heated and bent to achive the clearance needed to install them on a 250ci with the low mount starter. The new headers will be very similar, but the number one tube will be modified as I mentioned above.

 

[Hot 6t Falcon]

This was written in 2002 on the TFFN (The Ford Falcon News) at tffn.com

I have not verified any of it, but I pack it away in the "check this out" file.

I also have Clifford headers and had to "ding" them to clear the starter hot wire stud.

>Subject: Starter interchangeability? (TFFN 2487)
>Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:59:41 -0500
>From: Andy McLaughlin <amclaughlin@kiwanis.org>

>DQOW: Is there a smaller starter that would work in place of a stock
starter
>on a 170/200? My Clifford headers are in the way, so the starter can't be
>removed from the top or bottom. Any help appreciated. -Andy in Indy, '61
>Comet S-22, 200ci being prepped for install, 2-tone red/white

Andy,

From what I understand, there are five different starters for I6
applications, with there being a difference in diam and length between
them. Something to keep in mind when you go into your parts supplier where
you could check out size and type of positive cable hook up and its
location. The numbers ere...3131, 3128, 3135, 3169, 3172.
It also lists five different starters for I6 applications, a week or so ago
Two of them have the stud on the side, with the difference being that one is
4" in diameter and 6" long. The other one is 4 1/2" in diameter and 6 1/2"
long...and...some have the stud towards the end of the starter...well
actually, it's not a stud but rather a terminal that sticks up or points
back and the cable is held by a screw.

I'm sure of the first two as I just went out to the garage and measured
them...and I've used both of them on our 144 in our 63 "Orange Crush"
Ranchero, and am currently using the small one on it, a 170 we pulled out of
my sons 63 Mercury Comet Tudor wagon that's sitting out in the garage has
the small one hooked up to it...so mayyyybe... that just might solve your
clearance problem.

Drop by your friendly NAPA store and inquire of them...about the
possibilities of different styles.

Another thought...would be...what thickness are the two nuts that go on the
stud, I presume that they're half-nuts...but you file them down even
thinner...and then file down the stud to the height of the two lock nuts and
the cable terminal end...thusly giving you a weeee bit more clearance!

I've also heard people mention that a starter off of a 3.8 V6 is smaller and
will fit I6 engines, understanding that they only use two bolts vs three on
the I6, but I understand that many people have used them successfully...so
you could check into that possibility also.

Never having run I6 headers myself...be they Clifford, Reds, or
whoever's...is it the nature of the beast, that you'll have to loosen up or
remove the header to get the starter off? But then again, how often do
starters go south/bad, necessitating it's removal? Or, is your current
starter actually coming into contact with the header when its bolted down
(using a gasket). I know that a few people have had the starter cable post
hit or be reallllllll close.

I and I would imagine some other TFFN'ers would be interested in hearing how
you resolve things.

Later,

Wazzusteve