Dumb 223 hop up questions

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I've had a '64 Ford Custom Tudor with a 223/3 speed for about 3 years. It's pretty much just a rat rod that I beat around the cruises with. Although I've got two v8 combos (a '70 460 and an EFI 302 HO) I could swap in, I thought I'd play with the 6 just for fun first. For now, I'm limiting the mods to bolt-ons. My 223 runs great, no smoke, no bearing or top end noise nor anything that would lead me to believe that it wouldn't be a good candidate for a very mild low buck buildup. Since I've never worked on these motors, I figured I'd ask you experts here for some advice.

Barker High Lift Rocker Arms... Are they worth the dollars? I see these on eBay for about $50 and wondered if they'd work with my '64's rocker shaft. I've used bigger ratio rockers on circle track Chevys in the past
to cheat "camshaft rules" and understand their function. One thing I don't understand in their description is that the builder said to install them on the intake side if you're only using 6. That's contrary to what I've always believed about the exhaust ports needing more help than the intake's.

Does or did anyone other than Clifford build a single 4 bbl carb manifold for these motors? I'd thought about using a 1.08 Autolite 4bbl which flows about 425 CFM. $289 for an intake is a bit high for my budget build and they don't seem to pop up on eBay used like the 2 1bbl Offy's. But if I were to go with the Offy intake, which would be the easiest to tune and best carb(s) to use?

Building a split exhaust manifold.... Again, Clifford's price for headers is out of range. My welding skills are pretty decent but haven't a clue as how to build one. There's one right now on eBay but there's no way of telling whether it'd fit my chassis.

Any and all low buck performance tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm not expecting miracles, but I'd enjoy seeing what this old 6 could do with a little work.

Thanks!

Jan

 

[Luckyman]

Sounds like you have the right ideas. Getting the engine to breathe better with improved intake, carburation and exhaust is going to be the easiest and least expensive thing to do to wake the engine up a little. Notice I said "least expensive" and not "cheap". My guess is that the Holley 390 4 barrel is going to be the biggest single carb you will need without serious internal mods. As to 2 singles, the autolite/motorcraft or later carters should all work just fine as well as a 2 barrel on an adapter for the 4 barrel intake.

Sorry I dont have the information or expertise to offer you more with regard to the rockers you asked about or the fitment of particular headers or model #s on carbs. I was hoping some of the guys with more hands on experience with these engines would jump in here.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Luckyman! Even though I have no experience with these motors, I thought that I was pretty much on track with my mods too. The only other thing that I may do is to have the head shaved about .080 to get some compression.

As to the carbs, if I have to go with an Offy 2X1...I'm shopping for a used Clifford 4bbl intake, would a pair of stock type Holley/Autolite 1101's work? I already have a rebuilt one I bought last summer. Remember, this is a budget build plus I'm cheap...

As to the Barker rockers, more sets have appeared on eBay. So I'm planning to run them on both the intake and exhaust valves. Hopefully someone will have some input on the effectiveness of these. The principal behind them is sound enough.

Jan

 

[Luckyman]

I cannot think of any reason why the autolites shouldnt work. It is very similar if not the same as the carburators that came on those cars. However someone else here may know something, that I dont. Mayhaps they will show up and post soon, now that we have this discussion started.

 

[Anonymous]

no they won't work. the autolite 1101's are a load-o-matic carberator and unless you plan on useing the load-o-matic distributor(factory). best bet would be a set of single barrel holly's( like holly 94's). better performnace from the get go and more reliable.

 

[Luckyman]

no they won't work. the autolite 1101's are a load-o-matic carberator and unless you plan on useing the load-o-matic distributor(factory). best bet would be a set of single barrel holly's( like holly 94's). better performnace from the get go and more reliable.

There, I knew someone would come along who knew more than me. I was thinking of the Holley 1904s and spacing when I said I thought they were similar, forgot all about the loadomatic stuff. Thanks for the correction.

Anyone else?

 

[FiddyFour]

im planning on putting a set of three holley 847's on top of the offy 3x1 for mine...

not sure if they are the same mount or size as the 1904's that came stock, but if not, thats what a-dap-tor's is for aint it

 

[Anonymous]

no they won't work. the autolite 1101's are a load-o-matic carberator and unless you plan on useing the load-o-matic distributor(factory). best bet would be a set of single barrel holly's( like holly 94's). better performnace from the get go and more reliable.

I just read up on the Load-O-Matic distributors over at the Small Six Forum and understand the principal. I'm guessing that the 223's works the same way? I'd been thinking of the 300 electronic dizzy conversion I've read about in the archives. Since '94s are kind of expensive, what about tapping a vacumn port in the intake to feed unported vacumn to the dizzy and either running two 1101s or 2 more modern carbs? If this would work, which carburetors that can be bought through a parts store...Advance A/P or wherever for reasonable $$ would be best? I'm not necessarily trying for a nostalgic look. A friend suggested building my own intake, actually two, each with an 'arch' design running from each carb to two intake ports for better air/fuel flow than the square cornered Offy?. Has anyone tried anything like this?

I know....I'm a frustrated "Ms. Wizard" trying to squeeze a few more horses and ft. lbs. of torque out of an obsolete engine design on a budget....

Thanks for any help and suggestions offered....

Jan

 

[Anonymous]

try this website. they have carb that will work for what you need.www.vintagespeed.com. scroll to the bottom of the creen and click on online ordering or catolog. they have the folley stromberg or maybe somthing else. they have good pics of the carbs so you cn get what you need.

 

[Anonymous]

also, try ebay for that split manifold. they had a factory split manifold for a ford. not the 250/300. i am pretty sure of it.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, '64. I'll check both right now. BTW, I won my first set of six Barker rockers last night. They come with instructions, so perhaps I'll be able to inform y'all of the actual ratio of these things.

Jan

 

[Anonymous]

congrats. let me know how the fit. i am interested in finding some eventually. have heard that they are a goodie in the perfomrnace department

 

[FiddyFour]

that same guy has sets of six barker hi lifts on ebay about twice a month or so... i bought the other set he was offering (he always sells them two sets at a time) with the "buy it now" thing

just do a search for "high lift rockers" and you'll find em

 

[Anonymous]

There is also a set of split manifolds on Ebay for the 223,they look pretty decent.

Pat

 

[Anonymous]

that same guy has sets of six barker hi lifts on ebay about twice a month or so... i bought the other set he was offering (he always sells them two sets at a time) with the "buy it now" thing

just do a search for "high lift rockers" and you'll find em

I was just a tad slicker, hit the starting bid of $45 and waited that auction out.... There aren't THAT many people that are building 215-223s that would understand longer ratio rockers to get outbid. Actually, I got each set of 6 from two different sellers. I'm just hoping that in the literature that comes with the Barkers that states what the actual ratio is. Then I should be able to figure out the net cam lift.

Jan

 

[Anonymous]

There is also a set of split manifolds on Ebay for the 223,they look pretty decent.

Pat

It's been on eBay at least twice, Pat. The seller dropped the price by 10 bucks this time around. I'd consider it, but I'm just not sure whether it'd fit my passenger car chassis. Looks like there'd be no clearance problem in a truck.

Question.... does anybody know of a company who sells 215-223 header flanges? If I could find some, I'd like to try my hand at building a 2 into 1 header.

Thanks,


Jan

 

[FiddyFour]

Jan, call clifford an see if they will sell you just a set of header flanges... never know

as far as the rockers go, i believe the ratio is 1.25:1 so its not all that much more lift... altho anything beats stock

 

[Anonymous]

Jan, call clifford an see if they will sell you just a set of header flanges... never know

as far as the rockers go, i believe the ratio is 1.25:1 so its not all that much more lift... altho anything beats stock

Thanks, Fiddy.... I'll give Clifford a try. As to the cam lift, if we get .020 extra from these rocker, I'll be a happy camper!


Jan

 

[Anonymous]

I've built a few sets of headers had the flanges made at a Machine shop using the stock manifold for a pattern .
Tip: Have them made at least as thick as the manifold. Thin flanges will not hold the gasket well and will cause you all kinds of grief when weldingthe tubes.

Pat

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Pat. If I send him a pattern, I've got a friend in Texas with a plasma cutter who'd cut them out for me.

Now for another question, has anyone used an adaptor plate on a stock intake and put a 2bbl carb on their 215-223. I just found I bbl to 2 adaptor plates a bit ago. If so, which carb did you use? The Weber seems overly complicated so I've narrowed possibilities down to either a Rochester 2GC or an Autolite 2100. Both of the ones I'm considering are rated at 500 cfm, but since 4bbl carbs are measured at a different amount of vacumn, either of these would actually be about 350 actual cfm. Btw, I've got a standard tranny and a 3:50 gear in my '64, so off line bog shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think. I'm also going with the 300 dizzy, so I can dial in a decent advance curve.

Any ideas on this?

Thanks, Jan