Dyno results

[80Stang]

Ok, got the GEN2 engine dynoed today. Got to the target which was 150hp at flywheel.

Results (@flywheel):

112kW / 152hp @ 5200rpm
226Nm @ 3410rpm

http://www.ponikorjaamo.com/ti80/gen2_dyno.jpg

Torgue keeps above 200Nm all the way from about 1500-5000, so even my cam selection didn't hurt low end performance as I was afraid before the engine was completed.

Engine specs are at my website, except that the carb is now Holley 350cfm loaded with 64 jets.

Obviously the valve springs were the first to give up. But I think it would not have been very successful next few 100 rpms with even better springs if you look at the torgue curve which was already going down. For daily usage my springs are ok, no need to do more than 5000rpms while cruising to work. Keeps valve train wear minimum too.

Interesting test was another run with a Holley 500cfm which came out with one kW LESS! Torgue peak at the same numbers and rpms, power peak at the same.

xtaxi was right on target once again; the log is the dog. Seems it is pretty hard to get significant gains hp-wise without touching the log more than this. This is my feeling.

Posting pics some day. Hope this info benefits your engine plans and projects.

 

[Anonymous]

Teppo,

You've almost doubled the stock output, assuming stock was ~85hp. Good work man!

DB

***edit***
duh, I re-read your post then realized measured at the flywheel.

 

[MustangSix]

Looks like a very good, usable power curve. The torque is very good and is flat across the entire range, the hp moves up in a very linear fashion.

Better springs might get you a vfew more horses in the lower rpm range too. Springs that give up at 5200 might also be bouncing at lower rpm and holding the valves just off the seat.

But other than that, it looks like a good, fun engine that ought to be a blast to drive on Finnish ice!

 

[Anonymous]

Now you just need to add a turbo! - - - Like "does10s" (Will and Kelly)


That sounds like a good running and torquey package.
I am surprised that the Holley 500 didn't hurt power.

 

[wsa111]

Teppo, dyno results look very good.
What are your engine combinations, such as cam, head, exhaust & ignition componets??
just think if you had an aussie or an argie head????
Again, congradulations on your engine power. William

 

[hasa68mustang]

Just a quick thing to give you some info, I went to his site and foudn this page http://www.ponikorjaamo.com/ti80/200cid.htm it says about his performance upgrades, dunno how old they are tho...

 

[AzCoupe]

Teppo,

I'd like to know what the specs are on the Comp springs. Your web site doesn't list which ones you used. I think this is improtant, since they are the weakest link.

I'd also like to know how much vacuum you are pulling with the 274 cam. And how the idle quality is, and the lobe center (don't remember)?

 

[Anonymous]

Good questions, I was wondering the same thing. The 274 cam specs make me think it would have a relatively rough idle.

 

[80Stang]

The engine was fired up mid April 2005. Now it has some 3000 miles on it. The specs are at my website that you'll find in my profile, but Hasa just put the direct url to the engine section there.

The cam is FSPP/Clay Smith Cams single pattern 274/274 with 110 degr. lobe center (duration 224@.050). Timing set is non-adjustable Comp Cams, no degreeing kits or such used, just marks aligned.

Valve springs are Comp Cams #902 that they recommend to be used with their 260H cam. Some valve train components are a tad lighter than std (back-cut valves and one piece retainers).

The idle has been set at around 800rpm. To my ear it is sounds crisp, some might say it is rough. People say it doesn't sound like a six but what do they have to compare? Vee-eights. I say it sounds like a six because it is.
Idles around 10-11 inHG @800. While cruising today to work I observed 11-12 inHG @ 75mph @ 2300rpm @ 4th speed.
This is the sound file I recorded a while ago (was posted in another thread here) with a laptop and a cheapo ext mic:

http://www.ponikorjaamo.com/ti80/Jru9_sounds.wav

The sound file setup is the same as today except back then I had an Autolite 2100 1.14 on top. My vacuum is pretty steady and fuel mixture doesn't travel too much, but both do a little.

WSA: My short list to Santa Claus reads only a "6 head". AzCoupe, can I give him your contact info so he knows where to ask?

LINC: power adder indeed. I deleted the possibility to easily add such things to this block by zeroing the deck height (CR will end up way high even with dished pistons and late head chambers, unless the pistons are dished a lot and the chambers are bath tub sized). Also, I don't see a reason to break this combo apart to change pistons etc because there are blocks available to build from the start. There are some hints on what I might end up with elsewhere on this forum

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.ponikorjaamo.com/ti80/Jru9_sounds.wav

OOOOOoooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..................that sounds NICE!

I am going to have that play as a repeating sound clip for my alarm clock!!

 

[Anonymous]

LINC: power adder indeed. I deleted the possibility to easily add such things to this block by zeroing the deck height (CR will end up way high even with dished pistons and late head chambers

Alcohol injection will fix that.

 

[AzCoupe]

Teppo, thanks for the response on the specs and the cam qualities. Great info. I'd like to use some of your comments as a testimonial on my website, if you don't mind?

I tryied to log on to the Comp website, but its down for some reason. They must be working on it in the wee hours. I wanted to confirm the spring rates on that part number. But if memory serves me, the seat pressure is around 60# (can't remember the open pressure), which is not enough and your dyno results confirmed it. Clay Smith recommends a spring with 80-100# of seat pressure and 165-185# open (depending on valve and retainer weights).

I am currently looking for a single spring with similar specs that can handle the lift without coil bind issues. If I can find them by this weekend, I'll pack them in the small box of stuff I'm sending over to you, if you like. :

On a side note, sent the originals to ScanAm on Monday via overnight. Just incase you were wondering.

 

[80Stang]

I'd like to use some of your comments as a testimonial on my website, if you don't mind?

B my quest. FSPP supplied the cam, headers and 2V adapter plate for this engine.

Clay Smith recommends a spring with 80-100# of seat pressure and 165-185# open (depending on valve and retainer weights).

Unfortunately the cam card had an empty space where it should have been a recommendation for the spring. But I knew anyway that those Comps probably won't hold for high rpms.

If I can find them by this weekend, I'll pack them in the small box of stuff I'm sending over to you, if you like. :

Like. Do. Thanks.

Mike, you must remember the mails where we discussed about which cam to choose. The other one in the line was the dual grind 274/264. I finally chose the single 274 due to a thought "let there be some rock'n'roll" and due to a friend's opinion that a 274 really isn't that big a cam. But compare the .050 duration figures to popular vee-eight cams; for example Crane Energizer SBF 224@.050 cam is advertized at 284 degrees, and that is a pretty beefy street cam.

Conserning the cam I was mostly worried about MPG as this is the daily driven workhorse. With the Autolite 2100 1.14 on this new setup, I already got the same MPG than with the GEN1 engine. Well of course the Holley 1946 on GEN1 ran rich due to tossed smog stuff and no adjustments to jets etc, but it worked amazingly well in all conditions.
Now as the new engine has seen some miles the MPG has been improving all the time. With the 1.14 it was in 23-24 range already. With this Holley 350 I'll get great info tomorrow as I have a business trip that will burn more than a full tank of gas.

I also thought it would have hurt low end torgue but actually the curve is not any worse at all and it is upper in the scale. The GEN1 engine had a Comp Cams 260H.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys, my PAW catalog lists the 902 springs at 65 at 1.5 and 120 at 1.2. I had my machine shop check my stock springs from an E0 head, and they were 70 and 140.

 

[80Stang]

Yep, the springs are pretty equal to stock. Found the box and it says 48@1.600 and 146@1.250. 200's installed height is 1.590, so the springs is just above 50@installed height I guess.




Stock rebuilds only...they are cheap at $40 per set but performancewise waste of money.

Well, at least we got some info on them and now we know how far they go with that cam.

 

[Anonymous]

I had my machine shop check my stock springs from an E0 head, and they were 70 and 140.

Good to know.

 

[80Stang]

Revised the web site and put info & pics of the Dyno Day too. Check it out (see profile)

 

[addo]

I'm impressed by the theoretical top speed based on RPM. Gonna make a video "Getaway in Helsinki"?

 

[80Stang]

Top speed is easy to calculate if you know tranny ratio (dynos are always ran with 1:1 ratio, my car was ran on 3rd, T5 cars on 4th and so on), rear end ratio, rpm and how tall your tires are (from which you can calculate the circle). I've got 3:08:1 rear end, and 205/16/55 tires, which should be pretty close to 24.90" tall.

Theoretically on 4th gear (overdrive, 0.73 ratio) the top speed @5200 rpm is around 285 kmh / 177mph.
In real life other factors like wind resistance would limit practical top speed to little over 200 kmh I believe. But that could be measured here, as they have some events where you can measure top speeds on airfields.