e-bay special 250

[cr_bobcat]

So I got a 250 and mated C4 out of a 71 Pony for 200 frosties. The head is a C9. Just got her back from the shop where it was dipped, fluxed, and blasted. Shenis looking good and ready for the next step. I was going to do some light port/polish work. Now, I have a few options. The shop has some adapters to take the head to a tri-power. It's different from the full length Offy in that it is 2 adapters you mount on to the flats between 1/2 and 5/6. He wants $60 for the adapters.

I thought I would ask here for some ideas. It seems I got more choices than I can shake a stick at. I don't imagine i will use the 250 block. But I'm open to options yet at this stage. Right note I am leaning towards selling the short block. But if the right opportunity presents itself I will reconsider.

 

[bubba22349]

Those adapters are a great way to go, back in the day it was a more budget friendly way to install a 3 x 1 setup. Dose he have any more of them? Good luck on your build

 

[JackFish]

Curious to see these adapters, haven't heard of one in that style for our engines.
Probably not for a Ford. If it fits I'd buy one.

 

[xctasy]

The newer style foro 1978 to 1983 is no longer made, it has three separate pads to machine, but a one piece alloy adaptor.


old style was like this

Offenhauser Ford 1960-69 144cu Falcon 6 Triple Manifold (#5017) or Ford 1960-69 170-200 Falcon 6 Triple Manifold (#5205)

http://image.mustangmonthly.com/f/9180707+w750+st0/173_0312_six_8a_z.jpg



Then the the later type, which has to be machined as a three piece pad, stadard center section, annd two Weber 32/36b style pad studs on the outers.

from invectivus a bunch of links are from HRM's mustang magazine number 3.

http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Cover.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 90 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 91 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 92 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 93 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 94 copy.jpg

Pre 1975 Ford: 1970 and Later 170-200-250 Triple Manifold (#5970)
[offy-5970] $382.89

1970 and Later Ford 170-200-250 6 Cylinder Triple Manifold



This 360 degree manifold is designed to use a 1974 or earlier stock carburetor in the center and two smaller venturi carburetors on each end. (Small 2 bolt-2-5/8 ). The special throttle linkage is a progressive type, which opens the center carb first and then the end ones. Manifold comes complete witrh linkage and detailed instructions for proper installation. NOTE: It is necessary to remove the cylinder head to install the manifold.

 

[xctasy]

You can fit the pre 1975 #5970 kit to the D8 to E0/E1 heads, just machining.

The 5970 Offenhauser 3 bbl Tripower intake adaptor, US $382.89 from Phethean Racing Products, on http://www.offyparts.com

http://www.offyparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_6/products_id/238

Here are the sizes before application of the 5970 kit, showing that the center 1.75" hole is huge, but the two outer holes are 1.5", way too small for equalized flow, but better than the 1.09" items of the #5017 and #5205, and enough to make over 180 flywheel hp on a progressive linked 200, and up to 220 flywheel hp on a simultanous linked 250 tripower with the right cam, carbs and compression.

The set up is nominally thus

Front 1-bbl plate is 1-1/16" thick aluminium with a 1-1/2" o-ringed port. ( 4 fasteners at Weber 2-bbl spacings)

Center 1-bbl plate is 1-3/16" thick aluminium with a 1-3/4" port pass-throught to OEM log intake manifold .

Rear 1 bbl plate is 1-7/16" thick aluminium with a 1-1/2" o-ringed port. ( 4 fasteners at Weber 2-bbl spacings)

It has been patterned for the small stud spacing 1970 to 1974 stock carburetor in the center and two smaller venturi carburetors on each end. (Small 2 bolt-2-5/8 ). You will have to adjust the studs to accomodate the later Carter YFA and 1946 Holley 1-bbl carbs.

Looking like Powerband's from the HAMB and Ford Six Performance boards.

. . . . .

 

[xctasy]

For 60 bucks, take the Offenhauser all the time


For tight wads who haven't been offered 400 dollars of intake for 60 bucks, you can do like our member patrick66.

He had his machine shop do a welded C6 DE 6090 B X6 head (predrilled Thermocator without the AIR system), and they mig welded in two ports.
Here is his cardomain page, open up the pictures and you'll see his welded head at the bottom of page 1

I chose to keep the 200ci inline 6 for a couple reasons. 1) better gas mileage, it will be my daily driver. 2) it was the original engine. 3) i had never seen one in a mustang before, i have only seen 2 other 6 cyl mustangs since (in person). so it will be something unique that will hopefully grab attention. yucky, time to rebuild. This was the first engine i had ever rebuilt, so i was kinda nervous, but i had some help. all it needed was a hone and a lot of cleaning. I had the crank polished too. while it was apart I installed ARP rod bolts and a clay smith cam from ClassicInlines.com. i also installed Clifford long tube dual out headers, Duraspark 2 distributor, GM HEI module, and MSD coil. the head was milled, i now have a 9.8:1 compression ratio, i also did some porting. one of the things i wanted was a tri-power setup, however i didnt want to pay $400 for the adapter from offenhauser (which i have heard is prone to vacuum leaks. the intake manifold is cast with the head as one piece, making it impossible to bolt on a performance intake and carburetor. this is what i started with: i decided it was a good idea, so i went to my machine shop and had them weld it up for me because i didnt want to attempt welding on cast iron. i used a 1 1/4" hole saw and dremel to make the outer holes. i dont have any really good pictures of me welding the flanges on, but both the tubing and flanges are stainless steel. thats epoxy putty in the last picture, just to make it look smoother. more info here im excited 7/14/08

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3012033/1 ... ng/page-1/

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/archi ... 72858.html

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ke#p514060

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63673&p=487870#p487870


Page 52 of his 55 page shows the steps.
Very nice work.

http://s237.photobucket.com/user/patric ... =3&page=52

 

[xctasy]

Ah, I did find the three piece, it was Ak Millers, and was found in this photo from jalopy journal...

Que unklechop

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thre ... 452/page-2

 

[xctasy]

And that all reminds me of Toymakers amazing 4-bbl twin Stromberg 97 4HA/GR beast, born of drag strip




and an old chopped up 200



Armed with spark that can only come from an arc...with welded on carb mounts which he did with his kid and a brazing rod...


First benched as a wacky idea



then aided with youth and talent



he built it

 

[bubba22349]

Ah, I did find the three piece, it was Ak Millers, and was found in this photo from jalopy journal...

Que unklechop

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thre ... 452/page-2

Hi X, that was one of the article's I remember reading back in the day and have been trying to find again. It shows the Maverick that I remembered too. Good Job on the detective work!

 

[xctasy]

Even better is the modern shot of the Bosch Jetronic injection fitted to the Maverick with the 2V head.

This Comete 170 historical racer is pretty much the same as the Maverick 200 with Bosch Jetronic Mechanical Fuel Injection. There are some differences, (magneto, 2V intake trumpet spacings, cut off single throttle body adjunct, but you can see that Ford US were working on the whole Fuel Injected small six as the next big thing..

 

[bubba22349]

That's for sure X, have been looking for that article for several years now. It's good to see the pictures that I dimly remembered from the past! Good job

 

[xctasy]

The 250 also used Ak Millers version of the Offenhauser intake manifold, because it really got the job done. I'd say a 250 getting 24 to the gallon and flat 15 second quarters verses a Tripower 200 getting 26 to the gallon and 17 second quaters proves the technical succes of the cheap hop up six. It underscores the fact that Fords technical people in that eara had already done all the development work, and the people on our forum who have copied these set-ups have gotten similar fantasitc results on there log heads.

Sadly, cars like the Mavi GT were a dead end prospect for the Maverick buying public...people just loved the Maverick 302 Grabber with its Boss 302 at a third the price lookes and of course, the later Cologne Capri with its 2.6 and 2.8 V6 which did such sterling service in the Mustang II and last years of the Pinto. So the future was V-8'S and V-6's, not in liner sixes.


Without the extra development work required to trim the package down, the Tripower or Fuel injected 250 was a henously difficult induction system to package under 70's Ford hoods, and it just didn't spark the minds of show goes. Even with its stalwart performance.

The prospect of moving towards the potential 13 second street in line sixes, like the triple carb Six Pack sucess of Aussie cars like the Valiant Charger E49 was never again investigated.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... ure20.html



Ford Australia only went to the 17 scond M code 250 170 Hp engine, but the 15 secon triple carb Log head 200 and 250 US Mavericks had already proved just how much a stock I-6 could eclipse it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VciYNri3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZbUC6zU3MI

 

[bubba22349]

Xctasy, In your researching did you happen to find out the rest of the engine specs used by Ford in building the Mavi GT? I.E. like the cam specs, compression ratio, head work, ect :mrgreen:

 

[xctasy]

Three 4 articles blended answer your question.

1. Horsing Around with the Mustang Six - Classic Inlines http://www.classicinlines.com/HA1.asp
2. Jan 1970 Hot Rods PDF. http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/members/ ... Up_1-3.pdf
3. The 1970 Hot Rod Yearbook artical above posted by unklechop
4. The board member Invectivus 1989 reposts of Jay Storers articals

HRM's mustang magazine number 3
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Cover.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 90 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 91 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 92 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 93 copy.jpg
http://www.invectivus.com/hrm_mustang3/Page 94 copy.jpg

Ak used a stock aftermarket Hydraulic cam no smaller than 260 degrees as per his 1967 Hot Rod article on Classic Inlines, and no bigger than 290 degrees, with no less than 430 thou and no more than 470 thou lift at the valve, 48 to 70 degrees overlap and used 9.7:1 compression with a 170 head with its stock 51.5 cc.

This was more than Ed Iskys 260° duration, .408 lift, 42° overlap, in-take opens 21° BTDC, intake opens 21° ATDC, exhaust opens 59° BBDC, exhaust closes 21° ATDC cam listed in that 1967 artical.

On the 250, its stock 59.4 cc chamber could take Jahns pop tops on that bigger cam without interferance. That's about 9.5:1, seeing as the 250 has the 103 thou or more short fall.

The 2 door 250 would have weighed in at 2600 pounds with its TopLoader and heavier six, and to pass 15's, it would need a Faron Rhoads style cam.


The articles offer two carb choices, the intial ones those tiny little C2DZ 9510-A, waht I think was an 1909 which were actually 170 Falcon outers with 1" holes under them on the log, and the approx 193 to 200 cfm Carter YFA DOZZ 9510-F (They state 156cfm for the 200 and 146cfm for the 170 with there YFA's for that year)

The other 200 tripower was listed with the D0TF 9510-G or F Autolite 1101 in the middle. Similar result from the 210 CFM carb.

From other sources, the small early Holleys that were on the small sixes kinda sucked. 130, 150 or 170cfm for the 1904,
135 or 150cfm for the 1908,
125 or150cfm for the other 1909's, with one kind of 1962 Holley 1909 rated at 170 CFM and I think that was C2DZ 9510-4 .

FalconSedanDelivery (Faron) got 14.39's with that set up, and his cam duration was about that, and his lift figures on his Crane Solid Cam were 460 thou inlet and 480 thou exhaust.

.......250 .040, 1100 center, Little Holleys on ends , Crane Solid Cam .460int, .480exh Duraspark ign with GM 4 pin Module , 12-1 compression ( head was milled .120 , Deck .100 , Clifford Headers twin outlet ( open exh Drag car only ) car is a 1965 Mustang 3.50 gears C-4 with 10 inch converter ,( out of my 68 Blown 390 car ) 26.5 Slicks , Moroso Electric Water pump drive , adjustable Rockers , port divider in head , shift at 5000 , 4300 thru the traps.....

The he got a 14.39 sec for the 1/4 mile...