Engine Swap?

[stock63futura]

Hello,

I recently bought a 63Futura, 170 I6. I was wondering what I can do to get more power out of it. I dont really want to upgrade to a V8, but maybe a larger I6. Will a 250ci fit? If so, what would the swap entail? Is it even worth it?
I would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

-Brian

 

[jamyers]

Hello,

I recently bought a 63Futura, 170 I6. I was wondering what I can do to get more power out of it. I dont really want to upgrade to a V8, but maybe a larger I6. Will a 250ci fit? If so, what would the swap entail? Is it even worth it?
I would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

-Brian

Brian, welcome to the playground!

* Lots can be done to the existing 170, up to / including the new aluminum head, EFI, turbocharging. All that and more is just a forum-search away...

* A 200 is a direct swap, depending on which year/bellhousing the donor engine block is/has. Again, a forum-search is your best friend - lots on info here on that (I did it to my '62, there's a long thread with pics here somewhere)

* A 250 is supposed to be a straight-forward swap, although air-cleaner height, radiator or firewall relocation, and motor mount mods may be needed. The 250 is a different (small-block Ford V8 style) bellhousing, so you'll need to deal with bellhousings or tranny swaps as well with a 250. Again, searching the forums is the thing to do, depending on your preferences.

I heartily recommend you spend some time searching this forum for different topics, there's a TON of info here...

Another great place where lots of the above info is more detailed out is in the Classic Inlines tech pages, especially the "200ci vs. 250ci - swap" one down at the lower right.

 

[powerband]

.. depending on your expectations, a decent running '63 Futura 170 is a great start towards as good as new , or serious upgrades... . Simple answer is later 200 drivetrain mostly bolts in and 250 could fit with help . Later 200's are simplest to upgrade and can use later trannys...depending on your expectations. ...

have fub

 

[rocklord]

Welcome to the forum.

As with all new forum members, I highly recommend purchasing "The Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook". It is written by a forum member and covers performance, reliability, drivetrain, and engine upgrades. You can purchase it from Classic Inlines here:

http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=73

The handbook will answer a lot of your questions, along with reading the posts on the forum.

 

[bubba22349]

A big welcome to the site stock63futura I think you will like the torque of a 250 if your up to doing the mods of a swap. I would also say you will need to upgrade the chassis too just as if you were going to a V8. Front 5 lug spindle brake conversion (Drum is min better yet go to Disk)and a 8 inch rear axle.

 

[stock63futura]

I will look into that info, maybe even just beefing up my 170. I will buy the handbook.
I really appreciate the input.

 

[thesameguy]

* A 200 is a direct swap, depending on which year/bellhousing the donor engine block is/has. Again, a forum-search is your best friend - lots on info here on that (I did it to my '62, there's a long thread with pics here somewhere)

:

I was under the impression 170/200s always had the same bolt pattern...

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=66790&p=511591#p511591

:

 

[jamyers]

* A 200 is a direct swap, depending on which year/bellhousing the donor engine block is/has. Again, a forum-search is your best friend - lots on info here on that (I did it to my '62, there's a long thread with pics here somewhere)

:

I was under the impression 170/200s always had the same bolt pattern...

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 91#p511591

:

8) yep. right up until they went to the big bell 200 in late 1980.

 

[MPGmustang]

They are the same, except in 66 ford went to a dual pattern on the block. This way you could put a later model in a older car but not the other way around.

 

[bmbm40]

One approach is to calculate the costs for a 200 or 250 and see what you can live with. I like keeping costs within reason and have found 200 and 250's for $100 -$200 range that run well. The 200 is a great bolt in mild performance upgrade for the 170 you have. mpgmustang and frankenstang used a 67 bell housing on their 200's to bolt up a T5 which would be a good combo. The 200 likes to rev and has good power and the T5 five speed would be a vast improvement over the three speed. Maybe those guys could give driving impressions and approximate cost. The advice I always give is make your plan then start looking around for parts it can take some time but finding good deals on parts is fun. Definately get the Falcon Manual and ask questions.
The 250 is a great motor just depends on how you will drive your Falcon.

 

[stock63futura]

Has any of you upgraded to aluminum heads/intake/carb on a 170, what about the DUI distributor? I was thinking of maybe just beefing up the 170. Could I upgrade to the T5 while still keeping my current block. Again, I appreciate your input, I'm kind of a newb when it comes to performance upgrades.

-Brian

 

[jamyers]

For the cost / benefit, imho the DUI isn't worth it unless your time is worth more than your money. Some here have seen a 15hp increase going from a good electronic ignition to the DYI, but I think that you could get the same result with less money with a DuraSpark distributor/MSD box/recurved ignition advance, picking up the parts off ebay and/or wrecking yards and doing it yourself.

 

[falcon fanatic]

Or, if you are really interested in making power try fitting a Toyota 7MGTE and matching trans. Should fit nicely and good for 300+ hp in stock trim.

 

[Invectivus]

Has any of you upgraded to aluminum heads/intake/carb on a 170, what about the DUI distributor? I was thinking of maybe just beefing up the 170. Could I upgrade to the T5 while still keeping my current block. Again, I appreciate your input, I'm kind of a newb when it comes to performance upgrades.

-Brian

I think an AL head on a 170 will be rare, as you can get more value from the head by spending a few hundred on a 200/250. I've seen a DUI dizzy for 170's (almost bought one for mine) but the cost is the same as one for a 200/250.

I have a set of forged flat tops for my 170, as a back burner project, i'm going to supercharge it and drop in into a model A after i'm done with my mustang and falcon (10 years or so from now).

 

[bmbm40]

Your 170 probably is a 4 main bearing engine, not a bad thing really but may not be the best for extensive power mods and hard use. But you could use the aluminum head until the engine gave out then look for a 200.

 

[powerband]

Has any of you upgraded to aluminum heads/intake/carb on a 170, what about the DUI distributor? I was thinking of maybe just beefing up the 170. Could I upgrade to the T5 while still keeping my current block. Again, I appreciate your input, I'm kind of a newb when it comes to performance upgrades.
-Brian

Doubtful a distributor like DUI or any newer will fit an early (pre-65) 170. The oil pump to diz' shaft is smaller as is diz' bore in block. BUT... so many parts have often been swapped it's a good idea to verify the Block and Head casting numbers. The Block casting # is by the starter and should read something like: C3DE with 3 meaning '63 etc. The Head should have similar nuber facing up right behind carb on intake runner.

..nuthin' wrong with 170's although the early castings don't allow for simple upgrades to tranny (and dizzy). I enjoyed my good running but wheezy '63 170 for a few years and then upgraded to '71 Maverick 170 to enable a T5 swap with @ $ 100 dollar adapter and some fudgin'...

'63 Wagon w/ miles per’formance six:
OEM C8DE Ford 170, Precision Machine worked D7 Head . Stainless steel 1.88 intake valves/1.50 exh with- silicon springs and HD retainers, Ported and Polished chambers and relieved valve shrouds . Milled head w/ Steel Shim Gasket. CR= 9.5:1. H/W 5200 - 2.8 series (32/36) progressive 2Bbl carb., Exhaust ¾ siamese port divider, Champion racing spark plugs, Diaphragm Clutch. T5 Adaptor/5speed tranny, Short throw Hurst Indy shifter, OEM 3.50: rear, Shelby sway bar, , Fabricated subframe connectors / crossmember, Hooker 6601 dual out longtube headers. Shoulder belts front and belts for three in rear, Dual chamber master cylinder, OEM wide-wagon brakes, dual line rear air shocks, 14” wheels & tires, Countersprung Tailgate, Folding rear seat, Original tube radio …

 

[stock63futura]

Here are my casting numbers-
C3DE S460-A -exhaust manifold
C3DE-6015 E - block

Can't seem to find the one on the head, I will look again tonight.

-Brian

 

[rocklord]

Here are my casting numbers-
C3DE S460-A -exhaust manifold
C3DE-6015 E - block

Can't seem to find the one on the head, I will look again tonight.

-Brian

The casting numbers on the head is on top of the log intake between the carb and firewall.

As for the DUI distributor, Classic Inlines sells one for the 1/4" hex drive for the pre-65 blocks. If the DUI is to pricey, he also sells a DSII that fits your engine.

 

[170-3tree]

You can get a DUI for the smaller block. I had it in my 170, and did the prep work for a 170, but due to shotty machine work, the block failed in a very unexplainable way. Now I am working on a 200 block. I was under the impression that the distributor bore size in the actual block would be different for the DUI meaning that when I had the 200 I would need a whole new dizzy housing, but it actually is the right size in my 66 block. I just have to make sure I get an early oil pump for the new engine to maintain the oil pump shaft size.

As far as the doing the DUI in the 170, I have a poorly tuned buttometer and didn't feel much difference other than idle quality, BUT can honestly say there were times that the tires broke loose when they didn't with the factory Load-O-matic setup. I also returned about 2mpg extra when I did keep my foot light.

Doing the ALUMINIUM head on the 170 and returning decent compression is likely to mean machine work on the block to get above 8.9:1, unless your willing to have the absolutely gorgeous head milled down, something I could not bring myself to do.

The difference between getting a 200 to swap with ANY upgraded head, and just pulling the 170 Is going to be minimal, including: Buying another block, Getting any machine work done, getting parts, and installing. Honestly, having done both I believe that all the work done to the 200 was actually significantly cheaper than doing the work to the 170 to prep them for the Al head.

The gains of going to the 200 will be more than the extra put into the project. Its 30 extra cubes, It will most likely be a stronger, seven main, block. Getting one before 1966, will give you forged rods(most likely). and It will be a direct swap with no extra fabbing to fit into the bay.

 

[bmbm40]

You can continue driving the 170 while you find a 200 and do any mods to it you want and then just swap it out a fairly quick job. Less down time and can be inexpensive depends on how much more power you want and the condition of the 200 you find.