Ford Starter System

[DaGr8Tim]

I'm trying to get my 75 Jeep started and because I don't have a key and I don't fully trust the wiring, I'm trying to take this in steps. Bump the motor with the starter, check for spark, nail down the fuel.

Anyways, my Jeep has a ford style starter with the solenoid (relay) mounted elsewhere besides the starter. In the past, I've jumped the two large terminals (with the key in the run position) on a suspected bad solenoid to get a car started. This style of solenoid is kind of hard to do that with.

I also can't get anything out of applying 12vdc to the output terminal that goes to the starter. I got some sparks and my jumper got hot.

I'm wondering what could be wrong. I've never had a solenoid not turn the starter when you got 12 volts to the output terminal. Bad Starter? Bad Ground on the solenoid? It's pretty crusty under there. Do I try to apply 12 volts to the starter directly? Do I pull the starter and test it off the vehicle?

The other day I was trying to start it and got the starter to turn for a split second.

I'm also trying to avoid investing any money that I can't recoup part of if I decide to call this a wash.

 

[bubba22349]

You can use a remote starter switch hooking it to the battery side and the S term. That is the best way. Or short across terminals. Another way is go across from battery to starter terminals (all those Amps can be hard on tools). If you have all ready done one those you should pull the starter and test it off the jeep hook up your jumper cables up the ground - to the case (hold on tight) and then just touch power + to the the starters cable lug momentary. or you could take to your local auto parts store were they likely test it for free. good luck

 

[80broncoman]

Agree on using the S terminal. Doing it the other way it putting ALL current though your jumper. You could get burned.

Now either of those ways puts Full batt voltage into the starter input wire.

If it doesn't crank it could be
1 bad starter
2 bad ground for the starter
3 Bad connection on the either of the batt terminals.
4 engine locked

 

[DaGr8Tim]

Agree on using the S terminal. Doing it the other way it putting ALL current though your jumper. You could get burned.

Now either of those ways puts Full batt voltage into the starter input wire.

If it doesn't crank it could be
1 bad starter
2 bad ground for the starter
3 Bad connection on the either of the batt terminals.
4 engine locked

I can turn the engine over by hand. Things like the headlights work when I hook up the battery.

I'm leaning towards bad ground at this point. I'll keep everyone updated and probably have more questions.

 

[ludwig]

There is usually some large system grounding connection. On the Mustang (which I know best), there is the large NEG cable from the battery bolted to a lug on the engine block. There is also a body/chassis bond at the rear of the block. It is s #12 wire (more or less) screwed to the firewall. In a car as old as your Jeep, these connections can get rusty under the lug. Gradually the metal to metal connection is lost. You might want to look at one or more of these locations and sand down both the lug and the mating surface with emory paper. That will renew the continuity.

Of course, it might be something inside the starter or switch too. There are a lot smarter guys than me for that type of problem.

 

[Asa]

There is usually some large system grounding connection. On the Mustang (which I know best), there is the large NEG cable from the battery bolted to a lug on the engine block. There is also a body/chassis bond at the rear of the block. It is s #12 wire (more or less) screwed to the firewall. In a car as old as your Jeep, these connections can get rusty under the lug. Gradually the metal to metal connection is lost. You might want to look at one or more of these locations and sand down both the lug and the mating surface with emory paper. That will renew the continuity.

Of course, it might be something inside the starter or switch too. There are a lot smarter guys than me for that type of problem.

I agree with pretty much everything Ludwig said. Brought Susie down after not having her running for 5 years and had the same issues.

Have you tested the starter at your local parts store?
Other than that, I had the same issue with Susie recently. I had to take everything apart, I installed new ground cables, and I cleaned everything of any rust and nastiness.
Turned over almost immediately.

Of course, then the battery was old and dead and I had to replace that, then the DSII module was crapped out and needed to be replaced...


One thing I would recommend, if you run new cables is to run one cable directly from the battery to the starter, then run one from the starter to the frame. Helps to ensure full battery voltage gets to the starter.

 

[DaGr8Tim]

I took a quick peek under the hood this morning as I was leaving for work. It looks like the negative battery cable goes to the block and that's it.

Luckily, I have about 50 feet of braided copper 14 gauge wire that I got for a ham radio antenna.

I may try to put some ring connectors on it and run some new grounds to clean metal. I've also got a set of marine battery terminals and a bunch of HD ring connectors left over from redoing the battery terminals and cables on my Cherokee. Maybe that's a project for this weekend.

 

[Asa]

I would bet that you've got corrosion between the block and starter then. The aluminum body of those things corrodes almost instantly.

Don't forget to clean that aluminum oxide off, or you'll be stuck where you are.

 

[DaGr8Tim]

In my further efforts, I don't have a key for the Jeep and the lock cylinder is frozen. I'm wondering if somebody could give me some info on what wires to connect to hotwire it.

Being as this information could be used for evil as well as good, please PM me if you know the answer. The link below has a pic of the back of my ignition lock/switch. This is the same model that parts stores still sell and I'll eventually replace the ignition lock, but I want to get it going to work on afew other things first.

I've got terminals for:
BAT (I'm assuming hot)
ACC (I'm assuming when power comes out of this terminal, it powers the accessories)
IGN (I'm assuming power comes out of this terminal when running)
ST (I'm assuming this is the wire that goes to the starter relay/solenoid)

What do I connect to get it to start and run?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6228_o.jpg

 

[80broncoman]

......
I've got terminals for:
BAT (I'm assuming hot)
ACC (I'm assuming when power comes out of this terminal, it powers the accessories)
IGN (I'm assuming power comes out of this terminal when running)
ST (I'm assuming this is the wire that goes to the starter relay/solenoid)

What do I connect to get it to start and run?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6228_o.jpg

it sounds and looks like you have it figured out on the ignition switch wiring.

 

[DaGr8Tim]

it sounds and looks like you have it figured out on the ignition switch wiring.

I'm assuming if I apply power to the ST terminal, I should be able to engage the starter. But what do I apply power to, to get it to run.

 

[80broncoman]

it sounds and looks like you have it figured out on the ignition switch wiring.

I'm assuming if I apply power to the ST terminal, I should be able to engage the starter. But what do I apply power to, to get it to run.

The IGN terminal.

 

[DaGr8Tim]

Well, I made some progress today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXvVEB3LqMM

Next step is to verify I have spark and correct it if I do not then start digging into the carb. I think it's time to break down and get a new ignition lock/switch.