All Small Six Unable to get my 68 L6 started!
- Thread starter RO117
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
A touch confused. You lined the rotor up to the #1 tower with the pointer on 12* (Side note, using TDC would work- the method of pointing the rotor at the tower is +/- 10* accurate. If you still had points you could get it right on 12*) . Then you rotate the engine 720* and it's no longer pointing at #1 tower?
Agree- compression is fine, it's not causing no-start.
Make sure that you are on the compression stroke when the rotor is pointing at #1. No guessing.
I think I'm misunderstanding something, but my thought was that at the timing mark on my balancer when at 12*, the rotor should also be facing #1. But whenever I bump the starter, and the rotor was facing #1, the timing mark on the balancer was not within +/- 10*. Am I correct in thinking that is how its suppose to be? Also, is it possible that I was using the piston stop when it was on the exhaust stroke?
The timing mark will be aligned with the pointer at #1 TDC regardless of valve timing. remember, two revolutions of the engine for one valve cycle. So as has been said- you must verify that TDC is not the exhaust stroke, but compression stroke to align the rotor/cap. Remove the spark plug to where it's held in by one or so threads, very loose. rotate the engine till you hear the hiss of compression release. Stop. Now bring the engine up to the TDC damper mark. Now verify the rotor is under the #1 tower. . Ok we've done this part before, but now after the above: rotate the engine clockwise from the front for two full revolutions. The rotor should have swept 360* and be back at #1 tower. Only one rotation from TDC to TDC the rotor will be 180* from #1.
Find a way to rotate the engine by hand, it's more accurate than bumping the starter. With all the plugs out it should turn over fairly easy. If the fanbelt is tight enough, it should turn by pulling on the fan.
Balok
New member
Had a similar issue having to use starting fluid due to a non functioning choke. In my case, I replaced the carb with a stock rebuild from carbs.us You can either send yours in for rebuild or trade its core.
Had also done a complete tune up, replacing plugs, points etc.
Runs like a champ now. Can hear the choke click in and it now starts with the 1st crank. These stock carbs are old, so getting a standard rebuild kit will be hit or miss. From my conversation with carbs.us they noted that this carb 9510L had all the fixes for the other carbs that Ford used.
Had also done a complete tune up, replacing plugs, points etc.
Runs like a champ now. Can hear the choke click in and it now starts with the 1st crank. These stock carbs are old, so getting a standard rebuild kit will be hit or miss. From my conversation with carbs.us they noted that this carb 9510L had all the fixes for the other carbs that Ford used.
Thanks for the tip! I will probably go this route if my carburetor continues to leak.
FuzzyDriver
Well-known member
With all plugs removed I can turn my 200-6 over with the fan. Once the plugs are in, I can turn it some before it starts slipping annoyingly. It takes a 13/16 wrench to turn it over, but the fan blades get in the way and the wrench slips if you don't have it on all the way so I bought a 13/16 swivel head ratchet wrench. The swivel enables you to get a good fit to the nut and the ratchet means you can turn the engine all you want without taking the wrench off. This works quite well to the point that I stopped turning the engine with the fan altogether. The wrench I bought is a Tekton WRC26321.
Final update on this!
Car is running! After verifying TDC on compression via @Frank's method, it turns out at some point I had flipped the distributor cap 180 out as many were saying my timing was 180 off. Distributor itself was set perfectly after I had verified it numerous times. Before I figured the cap was out, I replaced the timing chain and sprockets. Along the way, I am presuming that all the gaskets have not been replaced since 1985, based on the date written on the water pump and condition of the gaskets, so all of that needed to be done anyway. After replacing the carburetor with @Balok's suggestion, the car started right up!
Thank you all for the tremendous help!
Car is running! After verifying TDC on compression via @Frank's method, it turns out at some point I had flipped the distributor cap 180 out as many were saying my timing was 180 off. Distributor itself was set perfectly after I had verified it numerous times. Before I figured the cap was out, I replaced the timing chain and sprockets. Along the way, I am presuming that all the gaskets have not been replaced since 1985, based on the date written on the water pump and condition of the gaskets, so all of that needed to be done anyway. After replacing the carburetor with @Balok's suggestion, the car started right up!
Thank you all for the tremendous help!
philford
Famous Member
any luck? maybe you can check the engine timing by having someone else crank it and looking wiht a timing light? if your timing light is blinking you have a spark.
in my FI 300 I need to find the spud connector, I don't think this is a concern with carb engines but maybe others know better. what that does is allow you to time it withoiut the ECU interfering with the timing and then after it is put back to normal .
I dont think this is the case wiht the older engines woith piints. but Im not the expert here on carb engines wiht points.
I htink Id want ot make sure either by static timing or by using a light that it is timed at least close to right. sure you may have a plugged up carb or maybe a problem with the float or similar but Id want to elliminate the timing as an issue first, as it seems you were mucking with that and you dont need to be troubleshooting with more than one issue causing a problem..
Two no start problems at once might cause hair loss ;-)
clip a small test lamp across the coil, it shoudl blink during cranking if it does it vverifies your coil has a pulse at its primary. I think if you check at a standstill with key on youd see a hot on one terminal and during cranking youd have the other terminal pulsating a ground,
those terminals are the primary coil , the secondary coil is connected to the plugs by way of the distributor. each time the ground circuit is broiken it causes the coil to generate a spark. where that spark goes is determined by where the rotor is pointed .
if you like you can do the spark plug to ground, check but instead of using a plug wire, stick a plug wire into the coil. you are elliminating the distributor from the picture then and only verifying the spark.
if you suspect your gas tank or bad fuel is an issue how about just gravity feed the carb or the fuel pump as a test? maybe use a 1/4" hose connected to a tank from a lawnmower or some small engine? you can also try cranking it into a container,, pull off the hose to the carb and stick it into a container crank it to take a sample and verify you have fuel flow. look for rusty bits or water or similar.. if you have no flow you might have a pump with a torn diaphram.
sure normally you have a few PSI of fuel pressure but if a gravity fed bottle is connected and it can keep the carb bowl full of fuel it shold run ok .
careful you dont start a fire, not a bad idea to go find a fuel rated fire extingisher and put it close by anytime you open a fuel line. Also probably good advice not to play with open fuel in a closed up shop.
if you ever check fuel flow in a FI engine be careful because they pump a lot higher volume of fuel . thise will overfill a small conainer very fast.
you can probabably verify an expected fuel flow rate and get more technical, but if you have some considerable amount of flow you probably don't have a no start caused by a fuel supply issue.
its probably rare but you never know, maybe some kid put something other than gas in it. 10 year olds have been known to do things like play with the water hose lool. Hey lets fill up dads truck lol .. ;-)
in my FI 300 I need to find the spud connector, I don't think this is a concern with carb engines but maybe others know better. what that does is allow you to time it withoiut the ECU interfering with the timing and then after it is put back to normal .
I dont think this is the case wiht the older engines woith piints. but Im not the expert here on carb engines wiht points.
I htink Id want ot make sure either by static timing or by using a light that it is timed at least close to right. sure you may have a plugged up carb or maybe a problem with the float or similar but Id want to elliminate the timing as an issue first, as it seems you were mucking with that and you dont need to be troubleshooting with more than one issue causing a problem..
Two no start problems at once might cause hair loss ;-)
clip a small test lamp across the coil, it shoudl blink during cranking if it does it vverifies your coil has a pulse at its primary. I think if you check at a standstill with key on youd see a hot on one terminal and during cranking youd have the other terminal pulsating a ground,
those terminals are the primary coil , the secondary coil is connected to the plugs by way of the distributor. each time the ground circuit is broiken it causes the coil to generate a spark. where that spark goes is determined by where the rotor is pointed .
if you like you can do the spark plug to ground, check but instead of using a plug wire, stick a plug wire into the coil. you are elliminating the distributor from the picture then and only verifying the spark.
if you suspect your gas tank or bad fuel is an issue how about just gravity feed the carb or the fuel pump as a test? maybe use a 1/4" hose connected to a tank from a lawnmower or some small engine? you can also try cranking it into a container,, pull off the hose to the carb and stick it into a container crank it to take a sample and verify you have fuel flow. look for rusty bits or water or similar.. if you have no flow you might have a pump with a torn diaphram.
sure normally you have a few PSI of fuel pressure but if a gravity fed bottle is connected and it can keep the carb bowl full of fuel it shold run ok .
careful you dont start a fire, not a bad idea to go find a fuel rated fire extingisher and put it close by anytime you open a fuel line. Also probably good advice not to play with open fuel in a closed up shop.
if you ever check fuel flow in a FI engine be careful because they pump a lot higher volume of fuel . thise will overfill a small conainer very fast.
you can probabably verify an expected fuel flow rate and get more technical, but if you have some considerable amount of flow you probably don't have a no start caused by a fuel supply issue.
its probably rare but you never know, maybe some kid put something other than gas in it. 10 year olds have been known to do things like play with the water hose lool. Hey lets fill up dads truck lol .. ;-)
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