I'm being given the stock turbo from a Buick Grand national, and I would like to put it on my '67 Falcon's 200 I6, I don't know how to duct it into the carb, I'h heard about needing a carb enclosure, but wouldn't increasing fuel preassure work? also, I don't know how to duct the exhaust into the turbo, any suggestions? Thanks in advance
Grand National Turbo on 200 I6
- Thread starter matt1967
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look around in this forum and you will find what you need.
as far as supplying exhaust to the turbo just run a pipe from your manifold oulet to the inlet of the turbo (should be on the 3 bolt flange on the cast iron side that is tangent to the scroll) a carb enclosure will work as will a simple bonnet (think aircleaner with no element in it) both will require raising the fuel pressure which is simply done (just afix a fitting to the pujmp and run a vac line to it)
also what carb are you running?
as far as supplying exhaust to the turbo just run a pipe from your manifold oulet to the inlet of the turbo (should be on the 3 bolt flange on the cast iron side that is tangent to the scroll) a carb enclosure will work as will a simple bonnet (think aircleaner with no element in it) both will require raising the fuel pressure which is simply done (just afix a fitting to the pujmp and run a vac line to it)
also what carb are you running?
I'm running a 1940 Holley 1bbl. I read that a waste gate is needed to regulate the boost preassure , first off what is a waste gate, and where do you put it?, what about if I cut a slide out of the bonnet or enclosure that bled off preassure, and ran that into a small pipe that blew out the excess on the ground, then I could just ajust the slider with a choke cable and control knob, and ajust until I got the right boost?
The wastegate is plumbed before the turbo on the exhaust side. Its purpose is to divert the exhaust around the turbo when you reach the desired boost level. They're integral to some smaller turbos.
A blow-off valve is in the intake tract after the turbo, and works like your choke cable thought. Except it's spring loaded (generally) so is automatic. It's not to regulate PSI, it's there to keep your turbo alive. Every time your throttle plate closes, the turbo is still spinning...the compressed air hits the throttle plate and has nowhere to go but backwards. This causes much wear and tear on turbos and can break them. That psst! sound you hear when a turbo car shifts--that's the blow-off. Read the sticky at the top, there's a lot more there than I have time to go into now.
A blow-off valve is in the intake tract after the turbo, and works like your choke cable thought. Except it's spring loaded (generally) so is automatic. It's not to regulate PSI, it's there to keep your turbo alive. Every time your throttle plate closes, the turbo is still spinning...the compressed air hits the throttle plate and has nowhere to go but backwards. This causes much wear and tear on turbos and can break them. That psst! sound you hear when a turbo car shifts--that's the blow-off. Read the sticky at the top, there's a lot more there than I have time to go into now.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Matt,
There is a lot of great info on the forum about boosting. The sticky written by Linc 200 will give you a good idea of what you need to accomplish.
In my opinion you need a good bit of mechanical experience to accomplish boosting our 6's because there is no direct bolt on's as of yet. If you can fabricate the J-pipe and exhaust, have a welder or access to one, then you will probably be able to pull off the mod. If not you will need to pay someone to do most of the work, which can become expensive.
Buy a book on turbo charging, research the forum, and good luck.
Bob
There is a lot of great info on the forum about boosting. The sticky written by Linc 200 will give you a good idea of what you need to accomplish.
In my opinion you need a good bit of mechanical experience to accomplish boosting our 6's because there is no direct bolt on's as of yet. If you can fabricate the J-pipe and exhaust, have a welder or access to one, then you will probably be able to pull off the mod. If not you will need to pay someone to do most of the work, which can become expensive.
Buy a book on turbo charging, research the forum, and good luck.
Bob
the early GN turbos were draw through 4bl quadrajets. when they went to efi they became a blow through style setup.
A
Anonymous
Guest
i would also look into direct mounting a 2-bbl too. you are gonna need more flow IMO
66Sprint6
Famous Member
Check out my cardomain for the exact setup your lookin for. Just run the stock exhaust manifold (for now at least, until a header is made) and J-pipe it to the turbo. Then put a carb hat on from Jegs, the lo-profle one and run a pipe from the turbo to it. Fuel pressure and all that has been covered on here before so keep lookin and good luck!
Matt
Matt
I have 2 welders, a Flux wire welder and a 110 Arc buzz box, could probably use my grandfathers old AC 225 Arc If I needed to. I know I can get the plumbing tubes bent and in place. will I need to lower my compression, it's the stock 9.2:1 right now, and if I do need 2, can I just replace the stock shim head gasket with the thicker style gasket to get the comp lower? I was playing around with Dyno 2000 last night, and put in a basic configuration using a Garret T04 S3 and got 198 Hp @ 5500 RPM with a light cam profile. figured with 8.0 static compression and 8 psi boost
I'v just heard about running a bypass in place of a blow off valve, will this work and how do I hook it up?
Also, I was reading the Hot rod magazine article " How to Turbo Any Engine " and it said not to use an OEM turbo because they arn't clockable, what does clockable mean? it also said because some oem turbo's have integral wastegates ( which I found the GN turbo's do ) and it is hard to fit them up for a custom application, kind of makes sense because there are turbo kits for popular engines ( 350 Chevy, 302 Ford ect ), but our 6's arn't popular or known as being popular, so there arn't kits for us, we have to go custom anyway.
Also, I was reading the Hot rod magazine article " How to Turbo Any Engine " and it said not to use an OEM turbo because they arn't clockable, what does clockable mean? it also said because some oem turbo's have integral wastegates ( which I found the GN turbo's do ) and it is hard to fit them up for a custom application, kind of makes sense because there are turbo kits for popular engines ( 350 Chevy, 302 Ford ect ), but our 6's arn't popular or known as being popular, so there arn't kits for us, we have to go custom anyway.
matt1967":vugqq81j said:also, would this work for a turbo carb hat, with no air cleaner element?
I realize it is the stock 6cyl air cleaner, but it seems the turbo could be ducted right into it.
No. It can't hold the air pressure and it's not sealed in any case. The system has to be airtight for it to work. "Clockable" means that you can turn the housings. It is to align them for easier plumbing. The integral wastegate isn't really an issue...it just has to be factored in when making the exhaust adapter and plumbing. I think that what you mean by bypass is a wastegate. Blow-off valves aren't strictly required when running an auto tranny (as opposed to a manual), but are a very good idea.
I was told a bypass took the excess preassure and put it back into the inlet of the turbo, used rather than a blow off releasing it into the atmosphere. I kind of thought I could duct the blow off back into the air inlet, and bypass with a blow off. I kind of thought the stock air cleaner wouldn't work the more and more I thought about it, that's ok tho, I'd have to get a reproduction because I don't have that air cleaner, I have the air cleaner that dosn't have the tube on the side, and that air cleaner is $89.99 for a new 1.
I think if I replicate what the GN had as best I can, I can do it very well, use whatever the GN has, like if the GN had no blow off valve, I won't put 1 in ( probably does but that's just an example ) , which I can find everything I need in my auto class, we have shop manuals that cover the GN's and snap on shop key which has info on most any vehicle you can think of.
also, could I use a small VW radiator from a 80's VW for an intercooler, they have no filler on them, they use a preassurized accumulator and there is no radiator cap on them. I could get 1 new around 100 bucks, from a VW junkyard close by, my brother had a VW Fox and bought a lot of stuff, got good discounts on a lot of stuff, even the new radiator he bought for it.
I think if I replicate what the GN had as best I can, I can do it very well, use whatever the GN has, like if the GN had no blow off valve, I won't put 1 in ( probably does but that's just an example ) , which I can find everything I need in my auto class, we have shop manuals that cover the GN's and snap on shop key which has info on most any vehicle you can think of.
also, could I use a small VW radiator from a 80's VW for an intercooler, they have no filler on them, they use a preassurized accumulator and there is no radiator cap on them. I could get 1 new around 100 bucks, from a VW junkyard close by, my brother had a VW Fox and bought a lot of stuff, got good discounts on a lot of stuff, even the new radiator he bought for it.
Ah, OK. I don't know that there is any reason for a bypass with a carbed system. I think they are for certain types of EFI as to not confuse the computer. I dunno about the radiator...it might work. I've never heard of anyone using them. They'll hold up to 15 psi (at least I've seen radiator caps that high).
I'd like to restate that an air filter enclosure will not work. Look at what Linc and kirkallen have done, that is what you need. The one that kirkallen used still blew apart when the engine backfired.
This will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
This particular one won't work on our engines but the design is there.
Here's Linc's 100% homemade bonnet:
Notice they are beefy, sealed designs.
Anyways, what year GN is the turbo from? It is different depending on pre- or post-1984. Before '84 the system was carbed and draw-through, and after '84 it was a blow-through EFI. Both had electronically-controlled wastegates, though.
I'd like to restate that an air filter enclosure will not work. Look at what Linc and kirkallen have done, that is what you need. The one that kirkallen used still blew apart when the engine backfired.
This will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
This particular one won't work on our engines but the design is there.
Here's Linc's 100% homemade bonnet:
Notice they are beefy, sealed designs.
Anyways, what year GN is the turbo from? It is different depending on pre- or post-1984. Before '84 the system was carbed and draw-through, and after '84 it was a blow-through EFI. Both had electronically-controlled wastegates, though.
wallaka":a8ny6s9w said:Ah, OK. I don't know that there is any reason for a bypass with a carbed system. I think they are for certain types of EFI as to not confuse the computer. I dunno about the radiator...it might work. I've never heard of anyone using them. They'll hold up to 15 psi (at least I've seen radiator caps that high).
I'd like to restate that an air filter enclosure will not work. Look at what Linc and kirkallen have done, that is what you need. The one that kirkallen used still blew apart when the engine backfired.
This will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
This particular one won't work on our engines but the design is there.
Here's Linc's 100% homemade bonnet:
Notice they are beefy, sealed designs.
Anyways, what year GN is the turbo from? It is different depending on pre- or post-1984. Before '84 the system was carbed and draw-through, and after '84 it was a blow-through EFI. Both had electronically-controlled wastegates, though.
the VW radiators I'm talking about use a 16 PSI cap in the vent recovery system ( no cap on radiator ).
I'm not shure what year it is from. I think it was a carb'd engine, not shure tho. back when he was originally going to give us the turbo, he could not find it, and said it was a '78 GN I think, but it couldn't be an '78 cause the GN didn't come out till '84, the Turbo Buick engine was put into the Riveria at that time, so I'm thinking he may have gotten it backward and it is from a '87, only guessing. I'll have # when the turbo comes.
also, how do I boost refrence the fuel pump?
The Turbo Regals came out in '78. So that could well be correct.
To boost reference the fuel pump, all you have to do is run a line anywhere from the pressure side of the turbo to the vent hole on the top of the fuel pump. It has to be expoxied in. Actually, it's generally better to use an electric fuel pump instead of the mechanical. It'll be less headaches in the end.
To boost reference the fuel pump, all you have to do is run a line anywhere from the pressure side of the turbo to the vent hole on the top of the fuel pump. It has to be expoxied in. Actually, it's generally better to use an electric fuel pump instead of the mechanical. It'll be less headaches in the end.
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