Header/exhaust advice needed

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
This is my first post here, I've just found the site in the last few days.

First, a little background. I have a 65 Mustang 200 that I bought in 1988. It has been my daily driver since then. Yes, really! I've only recently discovered the possibilities of performance enhancements! Ok, so maybe I'm a little slow… Anyway, the car is pretty much stock and I'm looking to make it a bit more fun a bit at a time. I will be converting the front drums to disks in the next week or so and dual circuit, too. That's a start.

So my question to you all is, what type of header should I consider (and is this a good first upgrade)? I've been looking at the Clifford, but I've not gotten much help from them as far as what to expect when I try to fit it. My only contact has been through the sales dept. so it isn't really surprising, I suppose. Are there many differences b/w the Clifford and Hooker, etc.? How is the accessability to the starter with these brands (do you have to remove the header to remove the starter)? Are there any other mods that I need to consider, besides the port divider? The car is in need of exhaust work anyway, so now is the time to look into this.

Also, is there any benifit to running dual exhaust over single? I'm not overly concerned with the sound, as long is it isn't too loud. It could definitely be beefier, but not deafening.

Thanks a lot,
Scott B

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Scott,

Welcome to the forum. From what I've gathered over the last three months or so of my "journey" I've asked some of the same questions. These are my reflections.

Clifford makes quality parts---customer service---delivery sucks

AzCoupe a fellow forum member runs Ford Six Performance Parts
Quality parts----helpful service---delivers what he promises

He is designing a new set of headers---not sure of all the details believe they will be of the shorty variety, dual outlet----I don't know when they will be available

Since you've waited since 1988 my recommendation-----wait until they are ready

Single outlet is probably better than two, you can Y-pipe from dual outlet weight-cost-etc no performance gain running true duals but they sound good with quality turbo style mufflers
2" with H or X pipe, dual turbo mufflers for duals
2.5" with turbo muffler or one into two muffler if you want the dual sound without true duals.

Clifford is the only one I've found who makes the divider--you really need it no matter whose header you use.

California Mustang sells them---at a mark-up of course

There are many performance options available for our motors but no one bolt on will greatly increase horsepowerby itself. Need to do the whole package to really see the improvement.

Package for a mild streetable Mustang

Holley 5200 two barrel carburetor--$65.00--available reman from Stovebolt Engines Tom, the owner is a good guy but he's a Chevy man

Two barrel 2 to 1 adaptor--$68.00--available from Clifford--Stovebolt has one but it's not the same design as Clifford's and harder to adapt

Cam Package---about $400.00 to $500.00 or so for complete package
cam available from many, best from AzCoupe 264 or 272 cam, double roller timing chain, lifters, pushrods, stainless steel valves, dual springs, one piece retainers, teflon seals

Machine work---costs vary according to what you can DIY and your machine shop Valve work and milling, port and polish $300 to $400

1" sway bar, poly bushings, KYB gas a just shocks, export brace, monte carlo bar and Shelby drop will make it handle

Of course it never stops once your started you become addicted.

Buy the Falcon Performance guide for the engine mods, the shop manual and a good restoration guide and ask a lot of questions.

Have fun---I certainly have

Bob

 

[CobraSix]

First off, welcome!

Secondly, in my humble opinion, stay away from Clifford. Look at www.fordsixparts.com . That's Mike's (AzCoupe) website. Great stuff, great service...and you can actually talk to him.

Thirdly, take a few weeks, browse the forums and people's websites to get ideas of what is possible with these engines. Be patient. You've waited this long.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Bob and Slade, thanks for the words of advice. I ordered the Falcon Performance Guide Monday, so I'll have a good look through that.

I'll browse around here some more and get game plan together. I'll keep you posted on progress.

Thanks again,
Scott B

 

[Anonymous]

Scott,
I just replaced the starter on my 200 with dual outlet headers. It was a pain in the a$$ to say the least. my header is like a cage around the starter, so I ended up having to unbolt the header from both the block and the lower exhaust to do the job. It took a while, but now that it's in the car starts and runs beautifully. Yes, headers are really worth it though. Once you've got headers you can upgrade the ignition, then you can really get into it with 2V carbs and head mods. Moral of the story - headers make starter replacement difficult, but that's no reason to not get them.

Good luck,
Spence

 

[66Sprinter]

Hello Scott,

Here is some advice that will help you as its helped me. When ever I want to know...just ask... and for more indepth...maybe you might want to research old posts on the same topic and from there you can cut and paste the advice to a WORD file and save it for later review.

I think the key from my perspective is that there are many ways to enhance your car, engine and body...but what works best for you is what yu can afford in both money, time and personal labor. As you read posts you will see all of us who have tried and struggled..and that is something you wont get from the sales department at Clifford.

 

[AzCoupe]

New headers are in production and should be ready in two or three weeks. This one fits the small six with a high mount starter. I'm am still working on a new design for the 250ci with a low starter. I had hoped one style would fit both, but that required compromises I was unwilling to accept, so I decided not to go that route. The low mount headers should be available in a couple months.

These headers feature excellent starter clearance, as well as good clearance for the alt and/or A/C. The A/C bracket still needs to be modified (no way around that one) to install the header. The lighter weight and smaller size also means lower shipping cost.

Primaries are 1 5/8 inch and the collector flanges (outlets) are 3 inch with 2 1/4 reducers. They will be offered in Jet Hot ceramic only, complete with reducer, flange gaskets and bolts, and a header gasket. Price is still in the air, as I am trying to work a deal with Jet Hot. But I think they will be right about $325 with the coating included.

 

[WhitePony]

Mike,

These will be in the Hot Jet Sterling right? If so, that's going to be a great price. Clifford wants $299 plus $150 for polished creamic coating. Plus, from what I hear, getting a Clifford part actually delivered can be pretty tough.

 

[AzCoupe]

Yes, that's for Sterling 2000. I'm a very strong believer in Jet Hot (or any ceramic coating) which is why I'm having them all coated. It's well worth the extra greenbacks and one of the best options you can buy IMHO.

 

[wsa111]

Mike, the headers for $325.00 jet coated are a bargin. If you are in the header market FSPP is the place to buy.
Just pull up www.fordsixparts.com & you can build your engine in a true professional manor with the best performance parts in the business.
Pull up his website & get your checkbook out for some real HP gains.
Doing these modifications will make your stock DOG close to the performance of a stock 289. Just remember if you can't pass the v-8 you can pass a gas station. William

 

[mugsy]

Hi,

I had Cliffy single out headers put on my '65 Mustang back a few years ago. Here are a few pointers:

* When I called Cliffy they said "6 to 8 weeks" delivery. After the 8th week I called to find out were the header was. All I got was excuses that THEIR supplier was waiting for enough orders to make fabbing them up cost effective :x . Why they would state a delivery that they could not, or would not keep is beyond me. I called weekly, and got the same lame excuse. Finally the header arrived after 12 weeks or so .

* The starter can easily be removed with the header on the car 8) .

* I have noticed that the battery cable is a little melted where it attaches to the starter. I don't know if its the heat from the header or maybe an internal electrcial problem . But the starter has always worked and I have never had any type of heat soak issue . However, I plan on installing insulation or wrap this spring. You might too.

*The flange on the header thouched on the idler arm, between the two bolts. The whole car BUZZZZZZED real bad at idle . The fix was to remove the idler arm and grind down between the bolt holes. The shock towers on my car are over an inch closer than factory spec. So I never had clearance issues with the starter, just the rest of the car .

* The collector gasket from Cliffy was a real cheap piece. It was like a white, brittle material, almost like super thin, compressed sheet rock. The gasket lasted for 2 years. Depending on who supplies the header, you may need to go to a local speed shop and get a good header collector gasket. They typically sell them in pairs for the V-8 dudes, so you will automatically be buying a spare.

* The port divider will more than likely NOT slide in. There WILL be some type of interference. So you better have an angle grinder or die grinder to trim/shape it. Some guys on this forum have complained about a loose divider rattling in the port. If you want to "glue" in the divider then you must find a high temp epoxy. I don't thing JB Weld is high temp. Exhaust gasses are typically in the 1200-1300F range, so whatever epxoy you get needs to handle this temp range.

* I had a muffer shop install the header, partly due to my fear that it would be a real SOB to install . Since that time I have had the header off and on a few times. It is actually an easy install. If you have never had the existing manifold bolts off, then you might want to use your checkbook as your best tool. But if you know that the exhaust manifold bolts are not rusted in, then do the install yourself . You'll just have to figure out a way to get it to the muffler shop for pipe fab.

tanx,
Mugsy

 

[Anonymous]

Looks like I'll be talking to Mike soon!

Mugsy, I thought the port divider had to be welded in?

I think I'll have the muffler shop do the install because it would be a long drive with open pipes! I love the six, but w/o a silencer it sounds like a tractor.

 

[CobraSix]

I drove around with open headers for 2 weeks. I scared the living daylights out of a Honda Ricer when I gunned it at a light.

Slade

 

[mugsy]

I think the BEST way is to have the divider welded in. That way it ain't going no place . But I think you can get by without the welding, search the web for hi temp glue/epoxy. The easiest way to have it welded is to remove the head and have the welding done on the bench. To weld it in place would be interesting. You would need to either have the welder show up at your garage, or do it at the muffler shop. And with the spot weld, you would have to grind it down to get a clean, flat, flush surface. It all can be done, but at what cost and hassle? :roll:

The first time I had mine installed the muffler-morons just stuck it in. I found that out when I took the header off the first time. I never noticed it rattling, but then again, there was so much noise, it was hard to tell what ANY noise was

tanx,
Mugsy

 

[Anonymous]

Here's what I plan to use to install my port divider...
It costs $17.95 for a caulking gun size cartridge. Resists heat up to 2350 continuous and 3000 degrees spike.

http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/pdf/907gf.pdf

 

[CobraSix]

I used the contronics on two different heads.

On the US head, it worked great. On the Aussie head, it failed in 2 months. But there is a reason for that. The Aussie head doesn't have the "www" groves in the 3-4 exhaust port that the US head does. So, on the Aussie head, the epoxy had to take on more of a structural role then just an adhesive role. Pictures of what I'm talking about:

Aussie:
http://www.kastang.net/pictures/65musta ... vider4.jpg

I don't have a good picture of the grooves from a US head.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Steve-o

Where can this stuff be purchased?

Bob

 

[Asa]

Hey Steve-o

Where can this stuff be purchased?

Bob

ya gotta order it online i believe
but look at what he actually posted
for a caulking gun size cartridge
there's no way he'll be able to use all of that, so if you ask real nice, he might let you use it once he's done with it
shoot, if that happens, then when i get back stateside i might ask to use what you have left to install mine...

 

[Anonymous]

Steve-o--------????????

 

[Anonymous]

Have we jacked this guys first post or what? Sorry Scott