Holley 350 rebuild for ~150hp

MPGmustang

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So I have finnally got a holley 350cfm for my 200, I want to aim this carb for effeciencey, sadly I don't have a wide band O2 sensor so I have no idea what I'll be running until I go run a dyno.
Last Dyno:
136hp
166tq
air temp was around 100*

well I have purchased a rebuild kit and an electric choke kit for the carb, I'll be rebuilding it next weekend just to clean it up.
the rebuild kit comes with the standard 6.5 vac power valve, I think that's too much vacuum as I ususally see 7-9 vac at cruise in 5th gear, Max vac is 15, but I've really only seen 13-14 at lower speeds.
so, for you confident modifyers out there I need help on where to go, I'll need info for my specific build, I hope to get a dyno soon and see an improvment in HP and torque

Should I pick up a lower power valve? what about the sqirt, and well there is alot I don't understand... I have read Genes 'More Power' thread and I'm still blown out of the water on most of it...

Wish I can post more but thought I should get this started before I put up the christmas lights. so thanks in advance for anything you can offer.

Richard
 
The 65 power valve should be fine. It will only open when manifold vacuum drops below 6.5 inches of vacuum. As long you don't drop below that either at idle or cruising you should be fine. I would go with a .28 squirter. Make sure you adjust the acc pump to specs...hold throttle wide open then depress the acc pump lever and set the clearance to 15 thousands.

It will be interesting to see what your a/f ratio is when you go to the dyno. I imagine it will be way rich at WOT unless you restrict the power valve channel orifices. Keep us posted!!
 
First, you don't need a wide band O2 sensor, but it is sure nice.

A wide band will get you a simple result, at a cost, but you can get close and safe readings with a standard Ford o2 sensor hooked up to welded into a 1/8" bung. The extra money you've saved can be spent of checking exhast back pressure. If you can reduce it to 4 or 3.5 psi at 5000 rpm, your laughing.

Just a narrow band O2 sensor with a multi meter will do the trick. Pick up the look up table of air fuel to voltage readings for our current oxygenated gasoline, and ensure that you have a passenger to fetch the readings when you drive a predefined route with the right mixture of steep road gradiants and a 1/8 th mile flat section you can use as a standing start to wide open throttle acceleration zone. You are trying to elimninate a very rich situation when you drive under wide open throttle, and then trying to eliminate excessively lean conditions when you are cruising around. The stock power valve channel sizes are huge, so you need to copy wsa111's work, and shell out the sum for brass correction PVCR jets. 55 to 59 thou is too rich, but if you drop back to a smaller Power valve channel restriction, you'll be able to make a richer than 14.7:1 air fuel ratio under wide open throttle. Then you can concentrate on getting enough fuel pressure to allow a 6.5"Hg power valve to do its job. From there, you can work on the squirters which give the right low end response. Most of you work won't need the air fuel ratios, but just a quick check that the O2 sensor isn't running into a too rich or too lean zone

Second, relating the the 150 hp flywheel power figure you'd like. If you don't have a direct mount 2-bbl, you'll basically be limited to 150 flywheel hp with the cam you have now.

To get there, a standard Clay Smith cam profile will get you a nice streetable engine with good power, and it'll suit your driving style.

Third, if you want more with a log head, and you want to push for the very best in power, then you'll need a custom ground ’shaft with NASCAR Winston Cup restrictor-plate lobe profiles to help compensate for the log head and its two- barrel carb. These designs
a) reduce seat time to bleed cylinder pressure at low engine speed
b) bolster intake flow as revs climb to offset a restrictive intake tract.

The principal is the Kenneth Duckworth restriction plate era which first started with a technical brief delivered to FISA in 1980 by Cosworth Engineering. It wasn't acted on, but back then they calulated how much peak hp you could make by restricting air intake size, and via jetting. Answer was a 53 mm restrictor plate that gave a 183 cube engine no more than 500 hp, with 27 cc per second fuel flow(One 1620 cc/min jet really). On 650hp NASCAR engines, they use four hole 7/8" to 1.03125" restrictor plates depending on the year.(See http://www.jayski.com/stats/restrictor.htm) The first plate was actually started with GM in the Pontiac Firebird 400 in production engines with a lead tab in the venturis back in the late sixtees to fit in with a corporate edict on not having ltess han 10 punds or car per gross hp. In 1971, NASCAR started mandating carb size restrictions, although they were technicslly mandated it in other ways since 1966. 1988, it came in force as a plate. In WRC racing since about 2000, for 122 cube turbo engines, they use a 35 mm restricter plate for 300 hp

Read more about the concept on : http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-raci ... afety4.htm

If you read http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... z1erjHlSqZ, then you can see that its not outside the bounds of possiblity that the 350 cfm carb can flow up to 245 hp if the engine has a longer inlet duration NASCAR style camshaft which controls exhast lift and duration to ensure the peak power band is elevated. Argentinas TC racers with 2-barrel SP 221 heads on 183 cube engines do 340 hp at about 7500 rpm with just a 2-bbl 38 mm Weber carb, using the same cam technolgy, and about 350 cfm of car flow.

If you really want to know, a 460 engine can make a 500 cfm Holley due 420 hp using the same concept
 


here is the last dyno run, the A/F looks really good actually, almost perfect... but I would still like to rebuild it for some warm fuzzies
oh and it's now cooler here, that was run when it was 89* now it's umm 70*'s ish...
 
Run Name: D:\Data Files for Text\Richard G\RunFile_062.drf

RunFile_062.drf: 88.77 °F 28.78 in-Hg Humidity: 5 % SAE: 1.03 Average Gear Ratio: 46.17

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
1.21 1.85 51.58 146.42 14.17
1.52 1.90 57.52 159.01 13.30
1.79 1.95 59.81 161.08 13.57
2.07 2.00 61.42 161.30 13.69
2.35 2.05 62.55 160.25 13.40
2.62 2.10 63.99 160.05 13.32
2.91 2.15 65.35 159.63 13.38
3.18 2.20 66.90 159.71 13.51
3.46 2.25 68.08 158.93 13.43
3.75 2.30 69.52 158.74 13.45
4.03 2.35 70.81 158.25 13.25
4.31 2.40 72.17 157.94 13.28
4.60 2.45 73.21 156.93 13.44
4.89 2.50 74.59 156.71 13.42
5.17 2.55 76.05 156.64 13.37
5.45 2.60 77.76 157.08 13.39
5.74 2.65 79.74 158.03 13.36
6.02 2.70 81.84 159.20 13.49
6.30 2.75 83.57 159.60 13.40
6.58 2.80 85.79 160.93 13.37
6.86 2.85 87.42 161.10 13.32
7.14 2.90 90.12 163.21 13.12
7.42 2.95 91.75 163.36 13.17
7.68 3.00 94.07 164.68 13.19
7.95 3.05 95.62 164.65 13.21
8.22 3.10 97.32 164.88 13.20
8.50 3.15 99.38 165.69 13.18
8.77 3.20 100.96 165.70 13.15
9.04 3.25 102.59 165.78 13.26
9.32 3.30 103.98 165.49 13.16
9.59 3.35 105.02 164.66 13.23
9.87 3.40 106.36 164.30 13.16
10.14 3.45 107.75 164.03 13.04
10.42 3.50 109.09 163.70 12.99
10.70 3.55 109.90 162.60 12.98
10.97 3.60 111.20 162.24 12.95
11.26 3.65 112.22 161.48 13.01
11.54 3.70 113.41 160.99 13.04
11.82 3.75 114.79 160.77 12.98
12.11 3.80 116.36 160.82 12.92
12.38 3.85 117.45 160.22 13.01
12.67 3.90 118.18 159.16 12.94
12.96 3.95 119.77 159.26 12.88
13.25 4.00 120.84 158.67 12.99
13.54 4.05 122.66 159.06 13.03
13.81 4.10 123.15 157.76 12.89
14.12 4.15 124.22 157.21 12.84
14.41 4.20 125.49 156.92 12.99
14.70 4.25 127.07 157.03 13.05
14.99 4.30 128.10 156.46 12.97
15.30 4.35 128.98 155.73 12.79
15.60 4.40 129.57 154.67 12.78
15.90 4.45 129.67 153.04 12.88
16.21 4.50 130.87 152.75 12.99
16.51 4.55 131.69 152.01 12.75
16.81 4.60 133.33 152.24 12.87
17.12 4.65 133.36 150.63 12.94
17.42 4.70 134.46 150.26 12.71
17.75 4.75 134.90 149.16 12.60
18.06 4.80 134.69 147.38 12.72
18.38 4.85 135.15 146.35 12.67
18.70 4.90 134.86 144.55 12.69
19.04 4.95 135.60 143.88 12.62
19.34 5.00 135.02 141.83 12.78
19.71 5.05 133.01 138.33 12.44
20.04 5.10 134.16 138.16 12.62
20.38 5.15 133.24 135.89 12.48
20.72 5.20 132.27 133.59 12.53
21.16 5.25 131.70 131.75 12.29
21.49 5.30 132.02 130.82 12.28
21.88 5.35 131.73 129.32 12.20
22.19 5.40 131.84 128.23 12.23
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 22.19 5.40 135.60 165.78 14.17
MIN: 0.36 1.80 51.58 128.23 12.20
 
if you look at the picture of the dyno run, at the bottom it shows max @ 135.94
oh and the data log I posted counts up by 50rpm's... I could go .5 rpm if you want to see the higher number, but it's really long... :rolflmao:
 
Richard, did you make your dyno run in 4th gear which is 1:1?

Good #'s for low compression & a 350 carb. Bill
 
Richard, I had Quick fuel add annular discharge boosters and air/fuel bleeds to my 350 Holley main body and I bought their meter block and bought the same restrictors Gene used in his block. That and I am using the Green accelerator pump cam, my old stock 250 has really come to life with just these changes. Throttle response is great at low rpm all the way through the rpm range. The jets I have are 58's with an 8.5 pv. My next change will be to try the 28 squirter Gene has talked about.
I think you will hit your 150 hps goal with this additional change.
Ken

As you stated in your first post, I also am learning about the Holley 350 2bbl on this site, thanks to Bill and Gene, this modified carb has brought new life to my 250.
 
tri-power 250":2eat1rsu said:
Richard, I had Quick fuel add annular discharge boosters and air/fuel bleeds to my 350 Holley main body and I bought their meter block and bought the same restrictors Gene used in his block. That and I am using the Green accelerator pump cam, my old stock 250 has really come to life with just these changes. Throttle response is great at low rpm all the way through the rpm range. The jets I have are 58's with an 8.5 pv. My next change will be to try the 28 squirter Gene has talked about.
I think you will hit your 150 hps goal with this additional change.
Ken

As you stated in your first post, I also am learning about the Holley 350 2bbl on this site, thanks to Bill and Gene, this modified carb has brought new life to my 250.
That's awesome Ken!
 
tri-power 250":1wo7jwh7 said:
Gene, are you running straight 93 octane gas or adding 104 octane to keep the detonation out of your engine?
We don't have 93 octane here...best we have is 91 so that is what I run only...I keep my timing at about 8-10 deg initial with 33 total and it does not detonate.
 
tri-power 250":opvd5myf said:
Richard, I had Quick fuel add annular discharge boosters and air/fuel bleeds to my 350 Holley main body and I bought their meter block and bought the same restrictors Gene used in his block. That and I am using the Green accelerator pump cam, my old stock 250 has really come to life with just these changes. Throttle response is great at low rpm all the way through the rpm range. The jets I have are 58's with an 8.5 pv. My next change will be to try the 28 squirter Gene has talked about.
I think you will hit your 150 hps goal with this additional change.
Ken

As you stated in your first post, I also am learning about the Holley 350 2bbl on this site, thanks to Bill and Gene, this modified carb has brought new life to my 250.
Ken, the green accerator pump cam is the one i use on a 4412-500 carb with a 30 cc pump.
Your 350 carb should be ok with a white or an orange accerator pump cam with a .031" pump nozzle.
Give it a try, i think you are over rich on the accerator pump especially with the annular nozzles which have a stronger signal for jetting. Bill
 
yes the run was in 1:1 4th gear (took for ever to wind out but it got there)

okay now you guy's lost me...
tri-power 250":2xck8u2s said:
I had Quick fuel add annular discharge boosters and air/fuel bleeds to my 350 Holley main body and I bought their meter block and bought the same restrictors Gene used in his block
tri-power 250":2xck8u2s said:
My next change will be to try the 28 squirter Gene has talked about
wsa111":2xck8u2s said:
the green accerator pump cam
wsa111":2xck8u2s said:
white or an orange accerator pump cam with a .031" pump nozzle
wsa111":2xck8u2s said:
with a 30 cc pump
wsa111":2xck8u2s said:
especially with the annular nozzles
and something about the 8.5pv, I'll stick with the 6.5 pv as I'm always in the the 7-10 range for cruising
any help in pointing where and what to look for? and how do I know it's the right one?
I haven't started the rebuild yet, as school is demanding more... but hope to knock it out during the holiday's. if the wallet will let me....
 
isn't there just a kit I can buy with the correct items? I'm sure when this gets rebuilt I'll have more understanding of the terms used. it's just the learning curve I'm jumping over.

doh, I know what annular is... lol

Meter Block
Squriters
Accel pump cam
pump nozzle
pump to be 30cc?

what's the price to change over to annular nozzles? seems like what pony did to thier 1100v, but I can't afford that price tag agian.

gotta stay on cheap budget. but the pump size, pump cam, squirters, should all be easily changed. now what about the meter block what do I need to do to that? drill holes and place inserts with .XXX size jets? is there not one ready to go from somewhere? really would dislike destroying my only carb
 
Richard...a basic renew kit for your 350 Holley will have all the basic parts like gaskets, new power valve etc...jets, pump squirters and pump cams would not be included so you would have to get those separately. Pump squirters and pump nozzles referenced in above posts are the same thing. This is the device that contols how much fuel is delivered into the venturi from the accelerator pump when you mash the throttle (remember that nite at the drags when we were trying to fish out something from my carb...lol...that is the squirter). The 350 Holley comes with a 30cc accelerator pump. The accelerator pump cam is a plastic piece that is screwed to the carb linkage...not sure if I can accurately describe its function...I'll leave that to someone else.

The metering block being referenced in other posts is an aftermarket billet piece sold by Quick Fuel Technologies and is part number 34-4. It is already pre-drilled in the pv channel restriction area, emulsion bleeds and idle feed restriction and accepts screw in "jets" ( some "jets" come with the metering block but you need more than what comes with it to get you down the road...they sell these as well) that can help you control a/f and overall throttle response. Hope this helps some. :wink:
 
MPGmustang":a25tysef said:
isn't there just a kit I can buy with the correct items? I'm sure when this gets rebuilt I'll have more understanding of the terms used. it's just the learning curve I'm jumping over.

doh, I know what annular is... lol

Meter Block
Squriters
Accel pump cam
pump nozzle
pump to be 30cc?

what's the price to change over to annular nozzles? seems like what pony did to thier 1100v, but I can't afford that price tag agian.

gotta stay on cheap budget. but the pump size, pump cam, squirters, should all be easily changed. now what about the meter block what do I need to do to that? drill holes and place inserts with .XXX size jets? is there not one ready to go from somewhere? really would dislike destroying my only carb

There is no kit you can buy. You either have to know what you are doing or get advice from someone who does.

The mods you did on your 7448-350 were really meant for the 4412-500 holley.

The pro billet nozzles you installed on your 350 carb increased the flow, but also created a stronger signal so some of the mods done will help, some will not.

I gave Gene the billet metering block emulsion bleed configurations for the 4412-500.

Your 7448-350 is starving your engine.

The green accerator pump is only for a 500 carb with the large annular nozzles.

The green pump is flooding your engine with a 350 carb.Bill
 
Bill,
What are your jetting and metering block emulsion bleed size recommendations for a 350cfm carb with annular discharge nozzles?

Thanks,
Ken
 
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