How much HP and Torque?

[Funky Cricket]

I have to agree with alot of the posts.

For a 200, N/A (be it good carb or efi), 200+ HP with a max torgue of 250+ around 2500 to 3000 RPM and max rpm of 5500 to 6k.

This would make a 14 sec car that would keep up with a modern heavier v8 pony car. Wouldn't cost your house to build with a good bottom end (re: standard rebuild with decent replacement parts) and the right cam and head.

A motor like this would keep alot of guys from yanking the 6 and maybe bring a few purists back. Especially if you could get a few radical motors out there embarassing the high HP v8 guys. It would also keep the ricers off our butt's and how them how some old school american iron can really run when it is done right.

 

[Mustang Boy]

Especially if you could get a few radical motors out there embarassing the high HP v8 guys.

u just described my plans to a "T"

 

[AzCoupe]

Sounds like you are working on a performance 'kit' or stepped upgrades. Or maybe I can lobby for stepped upgrade packages, since you are talking that way. 1) bolt ons; 2) cam, valves, whatever; 3) full-on wow.

Have you thought of a F6 crate engine? I mean, people are still paying big bux for those Clifford milled performance heads. You have the start with your new head.

That is precisely our plan. We will offer assembled short blocks, and various forms of induction packages. I haven't worked out all the details, as we still need to do some dyno testing, and develop the parts. But this will give you an idea of where we're going with it (no details, just the basic idea).

Short Blocks
B1: Mild - N/A
B2: Mild - Boosted
B3) Street Performance - N/A
B4: Street Performance - Boosted
B5: Street/Strip - N/A
B6: Street/Strip - Boosted
B7: Full Race - N/A
B8: Full Race - Boosted
Cylinder Head
H1: Economy
H2: Hipo Street
H3: Street/Strip
H4: Full Race
Induction
I1: 2V/4V (same intake)
I2: Triple Weber Carbs
I3: EFI - N/A (single TB)
I4: EFI - N/A (triple weber TBI)
I5: EFI - Turbo (single TB)
I6: EFI - Trubo (triple weber TBI)
I7: S/C - Magnuson
I8: S/C - Paxton
Camshaft & Lifters
Camshafts will be matched to the induction and vehicle specifications, however, the customer will have the option to specify a differnt profile. If we are lucky, we will also be able to offer roller cams.
Labor
L1: short block assembly
L2: long block assembly
L3: complete assembly
L4: complete assembly - with dyno break-in and test results.

The customer chooses the kit he wants, or any combination of kits. We will also offer add on's, like the rocker assembly, hipo oil pan, DUI ignition, dress ups, etc.

 

[matt1967]

will the blocks be new/ aftermarket/ high performance motors? from a company like Dart or Mowtown? If so, it might even make sense to have an experimental motor made with a custom block, stroked and bored to about 300 CID, using a custom bore and stroke ( allowing the clearence for the cam ) but base it off of the small Ford 6, so everything external small ford 6 fits, from waterpumps to freeze plugs, camshafts also.

 

[AzCoupe]

New or custom blocks do not exist, unless someone wants to invest 200K, so they will be rebuilt short blocks.

 

[matt1967]

I didn't think so, but wasn't shure. wouldn't make sense to invest 200k into after market Small Ford 6 blocks, not enough demand to warrant a 200k investment.

 

[Geezer 300]

Planning on doing the same with the 300??

 

[Anlushac11]

8) Come on Lotto!

I wonder if in ten years we will be joking about how we were around when Classic Inlines International Industries first started.

 

[69Falcon]

New or custom blocks do not exist, unless someone wants to invest 200K, so they will be rebuilt short blocks.

Hey Mike, have you ever thought about looking for a venture capitalist to invest in your company? They get a percentage of future profits and you get the startup cash to carry you over, including a paycheck for awhile so you can focus full time. Imagine aluminum blocks for the 200 and 250, both with the sbf bolt pattern and maybe even the I6 bolt pattern so we can use any tranny.

 

[addo]

The venture capital "playas" are all overfunded at the present.

One client is in that business and they are overpaying (his words) by 25-30% for businesses. However, something like non Asian produced motor parts for a small market would likely be seen as too big an outlay, too little a target.

Big Six Healey blocks are available; the hours were something like 1500 in patterns alone. I still think it's possible with a retired greybeard, but not so much first priority - at least compared to a better 300 head!

 

[ASMART]

Goals in order would be
1. Daily Driver

2. Pump Gas(regular prefered)

3. Strong low - mid RPM. In otherowrds most torque over normal driving RPM. If it starts to dye off at 4500- 5000, I probably would notice on most days.

4. Good economy - as much compresssion and cylinder filling as possible under 4000 RPM. Cam SHaft plays a big part on this. When playing with Desk top dyno, I shoot for as much PSI at 2000 rpm as I can get. No idea about what that translates into as far as detonation.

5. Price would hopefully be less than 4G including ignition, FI/carb, header, and long block. Of course, the better the package meets the goals, the more I would be willing to pay.


AZ, What did you hae in mind for tech Articles?

By the way, I envy you for your work on this. ALOT!

ASMART

 

[powerband]

On or near Topic:

I am getting real interested in having my engine (car) dyno'd. A place around here advertises $100 / hour and has specials of 2 - "runs" for $75.

Anyone done it, is it worth it for a one-time test?. I would like to hear from others about dyno'ing procedure.

Testing and swapping carbs, dizzy's, timing etc., would be a lot better if I could verify results.


Jack Clifford, legendary six cylinder racer, record holder and engine builder's, performance built Ford 250 six engine- 10:1 Pistons, Clifford rods, Clifford 272H Cam, line bored mains, balanced bottom end, ARP Fasteners, Cloyes timing set, Fisher balancer, 1.88 int. valves, Ported and relieved, Offy 3X1 w/3 modified Holleys, Re-curved distrib., Hooker dual out long tube Headers, the works, a few mysteries...

Powerband 8)

 

[AzCoupe]

Hey Mike, have you ever thought about looking for a venture capitalist to invest in your company? They get a percentage of future profits and you get the startup cash to carry you over, including a paycheck for awhile so you can focus full time. .

I've looked into it.

Imagine aluminum blocks for the 200 and 250, both with the sbf bolt pattern and maybe even the I6 bolt pattern so we can use any tranny

I've looked into having an aluminum blocks produced, but like I said, it's around 200K for the R&D and patterns. Heck, the 4V intake ran 10K and that's before casting the first proto type. This stuff isn't cheap.

I get a kick out of the guys on the InlinerInternational forum. They think someone should produce a 300-400 CFM cylinder head for less than a grand. Its not possible, unless you take major shortcuts and sell a ton of them.

 

[Does10s]

Powerband,
We've dyno'd twice with Kelly's car.

You won't get much done in 1 hr. Usually the clock starts when they pull your car onto the rollers. It takes another 10-15 min. to tie the car down and make sure it's not going to move. Then hook up all of the sensors that you'd like. O2, RPM, Vacuum/boost, etc.
Then you finally get to watch them put the car in high gear, and floor it.

In between pulls you might have enough time to change the timing or maybe change the jets, but in only an hour to make changes and get 3 or 4 pulls in will be tough.

IMO it would be better to just rent the dyno for the "2 pulls" to get a baseline. Make sure you note the time of day, atmospheric conditions etc. with the printouts.
Then you can come back another day for 2 more pulls after you make some changes to see if it helped.
Another way, and probably cheaper would be to get one of those "G-tech Pro's" onboard dyno thingy.
Will

 

[powerband]

Powerband,
We've dyno'd twice with Kelly's car. You won't get much done in 1 hr. ...
IMO it would be better to just rent the dyno for the "2 pulls" to get a baseline. ... Then you can come back another day for 2 more pulls after you make some changes to see if it helped.
Will

Thanks,

So the dyno-test results are done in top gear and isn't affected by gearing?. How's the RPM limit worked?. It pulls well past 5K, I limit it to @5500 and it still is pulling.
That idea of "getting a baseline" is exactly what I'm thinking. Plus, I really have no idea what the modified 250 actually is putting out and I'm real interested to find out.
The 250 has all the mods of what's been referred to here as "Stage III" and the '61 Comet is exhilirating to drive. . I quickly run out of road (and reasonable speed limit) while "testing" tuning variations like different carbs and timing.

Powerband 8)

 

[Mustang Boy]

on a dyno usually if u have a 4 or 5 speed manual they will use 3rd gear then get it up to around 3k and punch it up until redline

 

[mattri]

Awesome thread. Will chime in as what I would consider a typical visitor of these boards. I have a 66 Mustang T code. Car ran and drove when I bought it. Did some minor mods then started the complete restoration. Plan at the the moment is an upgraded front suspension with a Shelby drop and all v8 components, a T5 and either an 8 or a 9" rear with 3.73's. i love the idea of keeping the six but a dual quad 347 sounds like a hell of a good time. If I could keep the inline with at least stock 5.0 numbers I would be sold. NA is a must soley for simplicity. Mega-Squirt and others make what seem to be excellent packages but nothing is more basic than an old carb. Durability is huge as this will be a daily driven vehicle. You can build a small block ford for very little money that will put out 300 hp all day every day, when you make a six do that you will have a real competitor, until then it will always be the underdog.

 

[Anonymous]

on a dyno usually if u have a 4 or 5 speed manual they will use 3rd gear then get it up to around 3k and punch it up until redline

No...dyno pulls are always done in direct gear.....If 4 speed, then 4th,
if 5 speed with OD the pull is done in 4th (direct)
and with auto trans in 3rd.

 

[MustangSix]

on a dyno usually if u have a 4 or 5 speed manual they will use 3rd gear then get it up to around 3k and punch it up until redline

No...dyno pulls are always done in direct gear.....If 4 speed, then 4th,
if 5 speed with OD the pull is done in 4th (direct)
and with auto trans in 3rd.

There is a correction factor that can be applied if using another gear, but as Linc said, the direct drive gear is most often used.

One case where it may not be used is on some computer controlled cars that have a speed limiter. A car could hit the speed limiter in high gear before it reaches either a power peak or a redline.

 

[powerband]

on a dyno usually if u have a 4 or 5 speed manual they will use 3rd gear then get it up to around 3k and punch it up until redline....
some computer controlled cars that have a speed limiter. A car could hit the speed limiter in high gear before it reaches either a power peak or a redline.

'Don't want to seize the original HP/TOrque thread but it is fairly On Topic, Will move to new if anyone cares.

Then the redline is set by whoever's payin for the "pull" ? or wind it up to valve float or parts on the floor ?. Building my car I am always acutely aware of safety related components, how selective (nervous) are the Dyno-guys about strapping down a 45 year old car with modified - everything ?

Powerband