If You Have Roller Rockers, Look Here Please!

[Anonymous]

Just curious......My set has the oil bleed off on the first rocker arm pedestal (front of engine). He also sent me the later style pedestal that does not have the bleed off.

Which style are you guys using?? Would the pedestal that does not have the bleed off be more beneficial because it would force more oil through the rocker arm itself?? Or doesnt it matter much??

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Hot 6t Falcon]

Doug,

I don't have roller rockers, but I got rid of the bleed-off pedestal even for my stock Ford adjustable rockers.

I did it for exactly the reason you stated - more oil to the valve springs and the pushrods equals more cooling.

I also drilled the hole in the rear pedstal out to 3/8" and beveled the edge so it would be a closer match to the head's opening. I also drilled the bottom half only of the rearmost rocker arm shaft hole to 3/8" - the oil that passes the oil from the stanchion into the shaft.

Good Luck

 

[ricksmol]

I would like to dwelve a little deeper into this matter. I purchased the roller rocker set up about a year ago, installed it twice and had to remove it twice. First time I had the stand in the front rocker with the bleed off.

After a couple of hundred miles the sockets on top of the pushrods wore away. I returned the rockers to the manufacture who was very gracious about it. He gave me a new front stand without the bleed off and a new set of pushrods with a higher Rockwell scale hardness.

I reinstalled it and lo and behold a couple of hundred miles later big noise coming from the top of the engine I looked and this time the adjusting screws bottom balls had worn out. I reinstalled the original set I got with my Australian head and I haven't had a problem since. I attributed the problem to poor oiling pressure in my engine. But now Hot 6T Falcon mentions the fact of redrilling the rear stand to get better oil feed.

I am wondering if I can get to use my roller rockers yet?

Rick

 

[addo]

I'd just run oil-through pushrods and V8 lifters for that fix.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Falcon62]

Hey Addo, are the pushrods you refer to special application? The stock 144 - 250 lifters are the same as the FE (that's what I've got in my 200), are those the V8 lifters you are referring to?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dennis!! I figured it was a good idea, but sometimes my ideas are kinda out in left field, and I just wanted to double check

I swapped it this morning, and of course I had to take some pics for my website.... :roll:

Pictured on the left is the early style front rocker arm pedestal and on the rt is the later style rocker arm pedestal.

I was getting a bit of noise for a few seconds on cold start up, but after I changed the front stand, it seems to be a lot quiter now on cold start up.

Rick,

I took these pictures also for ya when I had it tore apart...

Back here on the rear left side of the engine do you have the right style headbolt in place?? and are you using the right style rocker arm pedestal bolts??

Shown left to right,

Bolt pictured far left is used for all of the headbolts except for the left rear which is supposed to use a smaller shank diamater bolt pictured in the center so that you get full oiling to the rocker arm shaft.

You are also supposed to use the bolt pictured on the far right for the rocker arm stand which also has a reduced shank diametar for oil flow.

If you arent you are greatly reducing the supply of oil to the rocker arms and maybe that is what is causing the problems you describe....only thing I can think of


Thanks!!

Doug

 

[ricksmol]

Doug:

I had absolutely no idea about the different style bolts. I used the original bolts I got with my Aussie head for the rocker arms. As far as the rear left head bolt, I guess I'll have to remove the bolt to check it out. I know that when I bolted on the head I did not do anything special for that particular bolt. You might be on to something. Thanks.


PS: The bolt you show for the roller rocker stands is for use only in the rear stand right? That's where oil comes from. Or all of them?

Rick

Addo:

The lifters I have there now are the same ones used in the 289-302 V8s.If I use flow thru pushrods, do I need special lifters?
Rick

 

[MustangSix]

Rick, the lifters you are using are the wrong ones! That may be the reason for the poor oil pressure and the oiling problems!

Small block lifters are designed to pass oil thru the pushrods to the rockers. The small six and FE (390/427/428) lifters do not do this. If you installed SBF lifters, they are probably bleeding off all the oil pressure in the gallery causing low readings at the gauge and not enough oil on the top end.

Are you sure? If they are SBF pieces, they will have a hole in the top of the pushrod socket. If they are the Small Six lifters, they have no hole.

 

[ricksmol]

Any way I can find out without having to remove the head? If I remove the pushrod can I see the top of the lifter with a strong light source? I vaguely recall somebody mentioning that the lifters are the same as the small block ones. But at my age things get a little mixed up.

Rick

 

[Anonymous]

Rick,

As far as the bolts for the stands go, they should all be like that, but at the very least the one where the oil goes up should be like that.

Yes, you can use one of those flexible led lights to look down the pushrod hole. pull two pushrods out. Light down one and look down the other.

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doug

 

[ricksmol]

Next week I'll open up the valve cover, remove the rocker ass'y, take a look at the bolts. Remove the rear left head bolt and take a look at it and with the light I had in my proctologist kit I'll look into the valve lifters. Hopefully after this mechanical colonoscopy I'll have some more answers.
Rick

 

[MandarinaRacing]

I recall a while ago (before the CRASH) somebody posted a problem that they had with the rocker arm assembly...I vaguely recall that the diagnosis given on the matter was or had to do with this same pedestal or the cam shaped cap that tops it. Does anyone recall, or am I totally loosing it.

Alex

BTW, don't mention this to my wife because for some reason I can remeber things like this, but I can't recall anniversaries or important dates ....except April 17th, 1964

 

[Anonymous]

Hopefully after this mechanical colonoscopy I'll have some more answers

sounds scary to me!!

Alex,

I believe that was Rick's motor also....I think??

Later,

Doug

 

[MustangSix]

The SBF (also 300. 3.8, 351C, 429/460) lifter is dimensionally the same as the 144-250 and 352-428 FE lifter. They will fit in the same hole. But they operate differently.

The SBF lifter has an open port on the top of the plunger which allows oil to pass thru a hollow pushrod to the rocker. Even with a hollow pushrod it wouldn't allow oil to properly lube the shaft.

The small six/FE lifter is exactly the same size but only has an indentation in the top of the plunger. There is sometimes a machining dimple in the cup but it is not open to the oil below.

When the lifter is on the base circle, oil is pumped out of the lifter and into the pushrod. If you use this lifter on the little six, it will pump oil out past the pushrod ball. That might lead to low oil pressure readings and a lack of oil to the top end. The bearings are probably fine since they get full pressure before the oil goes to the lifters.

It's going to be very hard to see, even with a light, without pulling the head. The cup will be full of oil.

I hate to say it, but you need to see if you can dig up the receipts. The sealed power and Melling number is something like XX-900 for the SBF lifter. If that's what you have, then the head has to come off and the lifters replaced with the proper ones.

 

[Anonymous]

I have been watching this post very carefully because I am installing a set of Mike's Roller Rockers, I already gave them up to the machinist so I do not have them to see if they have the bleed off, but I think they do not?

I am curious about the head bolts, I know I have the right lifters and rods they are the oil through type. But I am replacing the stock head bolts with new ARP bolts, this is for an Aussie 2v, do I need to make sure I have that smaller diameter bolt in the rear position?

I am asking more for knowledge, I am letting the machinist do the assembly, but I would like to check things like this out, before I get it running and ruin a set of rods...

 

[MustangSix]

I went out to look at all my head bolts from the last six engines I took apart, from two original C6's to two D8's. Except for the one bolt in front that is used as a ground stud, all the rest were the same. No skinny studs.

Then I looked at several heads. There is not any appreciable difference between a C6, a C9, a D3, or a D8 in the oil passage in the head. I poked a thin rod thru the oil passage to the rear pedestal and they all ended right at the base of the head in the vicinity of the threads.

So, in other words, if you were to relieve a bolt to flow more oil, it would have to be done right where the threads begin. A skinnier bolt from the thread up would make no difference. One thing you might do to increase flow is to enlarge the left rear head bolt hole to 1/2" as far up as the oil passage, or use a Dremel or small file to slightly enlarge the hole up to the oil passage.

I don't have any rocker shafts on hand to look at right now, but IIRC, the rear pedestal is different. The passage surrounding that bolt is larger to flow oil up and into the shaft. If those got mixed up, you might have an oiling problem. Also, I looked at all the shaft bolts I had, and they were all the same.

Looking at the oil passage on the bottom of the head, I can see where if you milled a LOT off the head, say more than .060", you might mill the passage very small and shoud probably try to enlarge that a bit, although I have milled a lot of heads that much and have never really noticed an oiling problem.

 

[ricksmol]

I found the original invoice where I bought the lifters. They are Melling JB-2083 lifters. I tried searching in the net for any info with no results. Anybody in this forum could maybe give me an idea if these are the right lifters?

The rocker ass'y from ROCKER ARM SPECIALIST has exactly the same pedestal from rear to front in every position.

Rick

 

[MustangSix]

the Melling JB-2083 is the correct lifter, so we can rule that out.

 

[ricksmol]

WHEWWW?!?! How do you spell relief?
Rick

 

[MandarinaRacing]

This thread is getting weirder by the minute!!!!! :

Alex