ignition issues - again

[theguitarist]

Recently finished swapping out the points for the Pertronix Ignitor 2 system with the Flamethrower 2 coil. Earlier I had been running it with the Flamethrower 3 coil but it fried the Ignitor and sat for 2 months while waiting for Pertronix to replace everything under warranty.

Now she runs, but she won't start consistently. When it does turn over she runs just fine, but it takes 10 to 12 tries to get there. I pulled the spark plugs to widen the gap to .40, as was recommended earlier in the forum. There was quite a bit of corrosion so I sanded them clean with a sander drill bit. Now there is no change. She will still start and run fine after several tries but it's not reliable. Maybe I should just replace the spark plugs? As always, any ideas help and I will finally get some photos up by the end of the week. Thanks!

 

[Vin Man]

Have you tried adjusting the timing to help with starting?

 

[theguitarist]

No, not yet. I still need to obtain a timing light. Once I do, what exactly do I do with it?

 

[The Plankster Prankster]

as for using the timing light, you will have to find the timing marks on your harmonic balancer, and on the timing cover behind it. it is advised to put a drop of white paint on the balancer's timing mark (to make it easy to see). then connect the timing gun, disconnect the vacuum advance hose, run the engine, point the gun at the timing marks you found, and it'll tell you where you are.
all this assumes your balancer hasn't slipped - if it has, your timing marks are useless and you'll have to set the timing using a vacuum gauge, which others here have detailed (and i don't remember well enough)

 

[ludwig]

You can time it with a vacuum gauge as well. It is not as accurate but it is effective and the vac gauge is cheaper.

Attach the vac gauge hose to the intake manifold nipple.
Start the engine. Let it warm up and put it in Drive. Let it idle in Drive.
Turn the distributor one way or the other until you get the highest vacuum you can. Should be 18* or more. If this speeds up the engine, back off the idle screw.

Down at the base of the carb is the idle mix screw. Screw it in until the engine starts to stumble. Back it off until you achieve max vacuum, again 18* or more. Then screw it out a quarter turn more. If it speeds up the idle, back it off again.

The idle should be around 750 rpm in drive. Higher if you have a manual trans. If it seems too high, set the idle down a bit, at least so it holds the idle. Fool with the dist again until you have max vacuum.

That does it. Now go out and try it up a hill. If it pings (rattles), back the idle off just a little (clockwise) until it goes away.

Next step: get a decent dwell tach and light. However, you may find that the TDC mark has shifted over the years and you need to rep-mark the damper at true TDC. We'll cross that bridge when you get to it.

Whoops. Plankster already dragged you across.

 

[Vin Man]

The methods listed above will certainly work to time it. However, I would tell you to use the procedure Pony Carbs recommends. Disconnect the vacuum advance, then turn the distributor until you get the smoothest, fastest engine idle. Then, use the adjustment on the carb to slow down the rpms and reset the idle mixture. Works great and you don't need any timing lights or vacuum gauges.

If you think your timing is pretty good already, and you just want to get the vehicle to start better, mark the current position of the distributor. Then with vehicle off, bump it clockwise just a little bit and try to start it. Once it starts right up, shut off the vehicle than try to restart quickly. You want to find a spot that the vehicle starts right up, doesn't "run on" when you shut the vehicle off, and then starts right back up. Once you find this spot, adjust the rpm and idle mix at the carb.

Not nearly as scientific, but it works. I'm sure many people will likely disagree with me, but give it a shot and try. Worst thing is, you use a timing light to get it back in time. You just need to make sure the cam was properly degreed, the balancer hasn't slipped the rubber, etc etc.

 

[ludwig]

Hey! I got that vacuum gauge timing from Pony Carbs. It works great.

 

[fordconvert]

You should check to make sure you are getting the full 12v to the system during cranking. When I did mine I had a problem in the wiring so I was not getting power to the system when in cranking mode. I did not notice when I was installing it because I had the key on and used a remote starter. It worked great then but for the next few days it was a huge pain to start. That was because it would only begin to fire when I let the key from start to on so it was just timing of letting go of the key at the exact right time. In the original system you got a direct 12v from the solenoid during cranking that bypassed the resistor wire and other things.

 

[MustangSix]

The only issue I ever have with the Pertronix is when voltage drops under 8-9V. The module doesn't work well at low voltage and you get inconsistent results.

On most Fords you have to deal with the ignition resistor wire. If you just hook the Pertonix to the stock wiring, the starting voltage is often too low for the module to work. Some try to bypass the resistance completely, but that often leads to excessive current load on the module and eventual failure.

I've learned that the best way to wire a Pertronix to a Ford is to leave the original ignition wire on the (+) coil, hook the black Pertronix wire to the (-) side of the coil, then wire the red Pertronix wire to a switched 12V source.

 

[ludwig]

This diagram shows the stock setup:

http://www.geocities.com/rustobucket/Mu ... nix-2.html

This is how I hooked it up with a new 12v Flamethrower coil.

http://www.geocities.com/a65ragtop/VM_F ... onix_3.jpg

You can get a wire tap at the auto part store and tap a new wire (#18) into the red/green wire out of the back of the ignition switch. Just leave the pink wire in place. Tape off the connector if you wish. The red/green is switched 12v power. There are other switched legs - heater I believe - but this is the most direct. Run a new wire from the tap through the firewall to the coil. I have had no problems whatsoever with the Pertronix.

The written instructions for this last diagram are here:

http://www.geocities.com/a65ragtop/VM_F ... iring.html

With Jack's instructions, you leave the pink wire in place as it is. This way you get the stock 6v coil to fire as usual; the Pertronix gets 12v switched power.

 

[sixpony]

The written instructions for this last diagram are here:

http://www.geocities.com/a65ragtop/VM_F ... iring.html

With Jack's instructions, you leave the pink wire in place as it is. This way you get the stock 6v coil to fire as usual; the Pertronix gets 12v switched power.

This is the way I wired my DSII module, I'd agree with Fordconvert, sounds like the only time you're getting full 12 volts is when the start relay is engaged. I had to leave the resistance wire on the coil because my accel coil ran way too hot on 12 volts.