I am going to run a Maverick in IHRA Stock. The car used to run in the old Z/SA class as a '74 Grabber with a 200. I am told that I will need to convert the car to a '72 to fit in V/SA; small bumpers-less weight. I would like to hear from anyone with some experience with this combination. Although I have done a fair amount of drag racing, I have no experience with the 6. The index for the class is 15.80.
IHRA V/SA Maverick
- Thread starter cometguy
- Start date
goinbroke2
Well-known member
There is a V/S comet who runs NHRA, can't remember the name, but I think it's Rice. Al Rice I think. I think it was midwest or west, so div 5 or 7.
I thought of that exact combo actually. The only problem is potential. The 3.8 with bigger valves than a 302 and dampers in the springs would have more hp potential. Plus 2 bbl/etc. Billy Nees runs a V/SA nova with a 230 as does John Dibartolomu.
I thought of a 250 in a 71 mustang to run U/SA...but again...potential.
At .575 hp/cu in, it is certainly lower than the standard .65 which is good.
1.66/1.4 valves and .370/.370 lift, compare that to the 230 chebby's 1.725/1.50 valves and .388/.388 lift. .608 hp/cu in might be a little hard to compete.
I'll try to find his name etc in my nitro joe's stat's.
Back in a bit.
I thought of that exact combo actually. The only problem is potential. The 3.8 with bigger valves than a 302 and dampers in the springs would have more hp potential. Plus 2 bbl/etc. Billy Nees runs a V/SA nova with a 230 as does John Dibartolomu.
I thought of a 250 in a 71 mustang to run U/SA...but again...potential.
At .575 hp/cu in, it is certainly lower than the standard .65 which is good.
1.66/1.4 valves and .370/.370 lift, compare that to the 230 chebby's 1.725/1.50 valves and .388/.388 lift. .608 hp/cu in might be a little hard to compete.
I'll try to find his name etc in my nitro joe's stat's.
Back in a bit.
goinbroke2
Well-known member
I found it, I was thinking of somebody else.
NHRA 2003 Jack Larsen, Meraux LA, #4746 V/S 1972 Comet 200
INDEX ET UNDER hp rated nhra factored hp round
15.55 15.033 -0.517 91hp 115 "Q"
Event was National open in Montgomery
He also went -0.311 (15.239) in Belle Rose in Div 4
NHRA 2003 Jack Larsen, Meraux LA, #4746 V/S 1972 Comet 200
INDEX ET UNDER hp rated nhra factored hp round
15.55 15.033 -0.517 91hp 115 "Q"
Event was National open in Montgomery
He also went -0.311 (15.239) in Belle Rose in Div 4
goinbroke2
Well-known member
I forgot to mention, in case you didn't know, the two main sites for class racers are www.classracer.com and www.superstockforum.com.
I hope I didn't sound discouraging, I reread my post and they might seem a little negative. I only meant to "open your eyes" so you'll know going in that in class racing (unlike brackets) every tenth is something to celebrate.
Also, when building, make sure you buy parts that have contingency's and keep all receipts in a photo album. Then they will be readily available for proof when you go to claim.
Lunati seems to be the favorite for stocker cams
Good luck!
I hope I didn't sound discouraging, I reread my post and they might seem a little negative. I only meant to "open your eyes" so you'll know going in that in class racing (unlike brackets) every tenth is something to celebrate.
Also, when building, make sure you buy parts that have contingency's and keep all receipts in a photo album. Then they will be readily available for proof when you go to claim.
Lunati seems to be the favorite for stocker cams
Good luck!
Thanks for the info GB, and the best wishes. I know the guys on this board will be disappointed but my goal with the car will be to install a 302-based crate motor - probably the 320 horse version. The crate motor class seems to be growing in popularity although obviously just applicable to IHRA. There are no NHRA tracks in Ontario at this time and we have two IHRA National Events(for now). I can run in a local Stock/SS series where I do not need to have a killer combo to qualify and will not likely encounter any cars in the same class. The car is already running and has been built with top quality parts. 8)
goinbroke2
Well-known member
Ah well, the six would of been cool!
Are you buying a crate motor or building to crate spec's? Just wondering cause last year I looked at that but couldn't find all the required spec's.
I don't know if you know about us down east, but here is our site; http://members.tripod.com/dragsite/index.htm
And here is our local S/SS site; http://www.maritimestock-superstock.piczo.com/
What I mean by not being able to find spec's is, all they have listed for ford is the 514! One guy down here also asked about running a 351 crate motor and was told he would need a letter stating complete engine spec's from IHRA or he couldn't compete.
Where do you race? Have you been to Luskville? That was my home track for a number of years in the early 90's.
Are you buying a crate motor or building to crate spec's? Just wondering cause last year I looked at that but couldn't find all the required spec's.
I don't know if you know about us down east, but here is our site; http://members.tripod.com/dragsite/index.htm
And here is our local S/SS site; http://www.maritimestock-superstock.piczo.com/
What I mean by not being able to find spec's is, all they have listed for ford is the 514! One guy down here also asked about running a 351 crate motor and was told he would need a letter stating complete engine spec's from IHRA or he couldn't compete.
Where do you race? Have you been to Luskville? That was my home track for a number of years in the early 90's.
Ill be racing in Southern Ontario in a local Stock/SS series that runs at Grand Bend, Toronto Motorsport Park,(formerly Cayuga) and Milan, Michigan. We have two IHRA National Events in Ontario and I may attempt to attend one or two in the US as well. We ran at Luskville, back in '92 I think, with a '71 Maverick, but just on one weekend.
As far as the 8 cyl thing goes, I will be building a motor to crate spec; one of the four 5L based combos listed by IHRA. It will be the 320hp version with the Y303 aluminum heads.
As far as the 8 cyl thing goes, I will be building a motor to crate spec; one of the four 5L based combos listed by IHRA. It will be the 320hp version with the Y303 aluminum heads.
goinbroke2
Well-known member
Very interesting, Larsen has taken a different approach from the previous owner of my car. Being a stick entry would perhaps demand a larger tire than mine(and undoubtedly more gear). My car is very basic in the rear - no traction aids whatsoever. I have not done any testing and have only seen it's launch attitude in still pics. It has a 26" tire with 4.56 gear. Larsen's Comet has the Comp Eng Slide-a-Link bars and what appears to be at least a 28" tire; maybe taller? What do you think?
goinbroke2
Well-known member
Looks 28 or possibly 28.5 but I think the fender is to small to be any larger. Hard to say what the gear is, I don't know trap rpm but I would say he probably runs a jerico with a 1st that suits him and has rear gears set for trap speed. Kinda wonder how hard he winds it eh? V/S has a 15.55 index, so figure 87-89mph trap speed, 28 inch slick, 6000rpm trap rpm? that would figure to a 5.68 rear gear!
Even with a 5500 trap rpm, it's still a 5.21 gear. Now I've seen (as you probably have) stocker v-8's run to 6500 or more with 2bbl's, so perhaps a 200 that's buit to stocker spec's will spin up that high? Regardless, low hp cars that have low trap speeds NEED to gear really low to get moving. Talk to Ron Ortiz with his U/SA 273 wagon, he really winds that sucker up!
Even with a 5500 trap rpm, it's still a 5.21 gear. Now I've seen (as you probably have) stocker v-8's run to 6500 or more with 2bbl's, so perhaps a 200 that's buit to stocker spec's will spin up that high? Regardless, low hp cars that have low trap speeds NEED to gear really low to get moving. Talk to Ron Ortiz with his U/SA 273 wagon, he really winds that sucker up!
An LA 273 isn't an engine, its an Uzzi with with silver bullets!
In NZ, Valiant Regals came out with a 273, and despite its narrow 3.625" bore, it reved and perfromed unlike any other small block V8. The Commander 273 was a standout engine.
BlQQdy Chrylser engineers.
Two things I've seen is that with little I6's or SB V8's,
1. the ones winning have excellent rod ratios of 1.8:1 of better. Over rev capability is the key for production drag racing engines. Even with poor breathing via restrictive 2-bbl carbs, they will haul through the traps at maximum power, often well over 6500 rpm. The 273 and 289's are examples, so are the 240 sixes used in some catagories (2.1:1). The Argentine 188's, just a long block 200 with ultra long rods and a 2-barrel head will rev to 7500 rpm with 300 hp plus with just an IDA.
2. The bore centre to centre spacings should be as big as possible. So a 4.08 centre to centre 188 with a 3.68 bore and 2.94" stroke is passable, but not really good, It's offest by having a good set of 5.4" inch rods give to give a 1.83:1 rod ratio.
The 273 has a 4.56" bore spacing, and over 930 thou between the cyinders. Long 6.125" rods, short 3.31" stoke, 1.85:1 rod ratio.
289 is 1.8:1 rod ratio, but a good 273 outruns a good 289. The 273 is just a narrow bore 340 with unbelieavably solid cylinder walls.
A 300 has a poor rod ratio, but huge bores and a large bore spacing. The rod ratio isn't good. It needs a set of after market 6.8" steel or alloy rods to rev higher without stress.
,
In NZ, Valiant Regals came out with a 273, and despite its narrow 3.625" bore, it reved and perfromed unlike any other small block V8. The Commander 273 was a standout engine.
BlQQdy Chrylser engineers.
Two things I've seen is that with little I6's or SB V8's,
1. the ones winning have excellent rod ratios of 1.8:1 of better. Over rev capability is the key for production drag racing engines. Even with poor breathing via restrictive 2-bbl carbs, they will haul through the traps at maximum power, often well over 6500 rpm. The 273 and 289's are examples, so are the 240 sixes used in some catagories (2.1:1). The Argentine 188's, just a long block 200 with ultra long rods and a 2-barrel head will rev to 7500 rpm with 300 hp plus with just an IDA.
2. The bore centre to centre spacings should be as big as possible. So a 4.08 centre to centre 188 with a 3.68 bore and 2.94" stroke is passable, but not really good, It's offest by having a good set of 5.4" inch rods give to give a 1.83:1 rod ratio.
The 273 has a 4.56" bore spacing, and over 930 thou between the cyinders. Long 6.125" rods, short 3.31" stoke, 1.85:1 rod ratio.
289 is 1.8:1 rod ratio, but a good 273 outruns a good 289. The 273 is just a narrow bore 340 with unbelieavably solid cylinder walls.
A 300 has a poor rod ratio, but huge bores and a large bore spacing. The rod ratio isn't good. It needs a set of after market 6.8" steel or alloy rods to rev higher without stress.
,
goinbroke2
Well-known member
You have some good points, but I must disagree with your 273 vs 289 comparo. The hyd cammed 289 does lag behind the solid cammed 273, (225 hp 289) but in NHRA anyway, the 271hp and 306 hp solid cammed 289's run away from the 273. Of course it's not a "true" comparison due to different builders and nhra adjusted hp numbers, but one of the best combo's for a ford is a 271hp 289, 1964 with a 400cfm autolite 4 bbl. There has been enough of them as record holders that the hp has bumped numerous times over the years. Ray Scardelli runs one in a newer probe as a SS/GT car and runs in the 9's! Also Alex Dysenko runs one in a mustang and is VERY successfull with it.(record holder as is Ray)
Also a 64 comet named "smokey" but I can't remember his name, runs one and has been a record holder also.
Of course the best of the fords run a cleveland or a 428cj, but now the 302 2bbl has been reduced to 170hp....hmm...and the 3.8 is underrated too...hmmm..oops, I digress!
Also a 64 comet named "smokey" but I can't remember his name, runs one and has been a record holder also.
Of course the best of the fords run a cleveland or a 428cj, but now the 302 2bbl has been reduced to 170hp....hmm...and the 3.8 is underrated too...hmmm..oops, I digress!
Wow, I didn't know that.
Over here, pre 65 Appendix J racers have 273's and 289's. None of the solid lifter 289's qualify.
The 289 271 and 306's are amazing. Great to have a 450 lift, 250 pounds of valve pressure, 310 degree cam, 3/8 th bolts, 1/8" higher port heads, and 17 000 to chose from straight form the factory.
But I digress.
Over here, pre 65 Appendix J racers have 273's and 289's. None of the solid lifter 289's qualify.
The 289 271 and 306's are amazing. Great to have a 450 lift, 250 pounds of valve pressure, 310 degree cam, 3/8 th bolts, 1/8" higher port heads, and 17 000 to chose from straight form the factory.
But I digress.
Here in the states the 273 was never anything more than a very pedestrian grocery-getter engine. Not much power, not much performance. It was the entry level V8, with all the performance attention going to the bigger B- and RB- engines of the day. It was not until the 340 appeared that the smaller Mopar got a performance boost. It was the dismal performance of the 273 that cost the original Barracuda a lot of sales, in spite of its earlier arrival.
goinbroke2
Well-known member
Something else too, the .450 lift is a little short as the NHRA spec's say .478/.478 lift and duration is limitless. Also the 3/8 rod bolts are excellent...but NHRA says you can run any aftermarket rod the same weight as original. And valve spring pressure.. man I've seen 250 on the seat!! Everybody is running shubeck lifters which have a ceramic bottom so you can run them on as many cams as you want with out break in! That also means you can run horrendous spring pressures and not wipe a lobe.
Oh yeah, this is for the 271hp 289. This is what I was talking about when I said apples to oranges, the car comes with .450 lift for example, but if ford sends a spec sheet stating "upgraded" or "superceded", then they can do what ever they want. This is a big bone of contention with non-ford racers and the FE guys running "factory" 7 quart oil pans and shelby 428cj's with 2 4bbl's and an auto tranny. Hey, if shelby said he built them and signed his name, who is anybody else to debate him??
So, those solid cammed 289's don't qualify eh?? So drop some Hyd shubecks in a 225hp 289 (which have around .015 plunger travel) massive springs and a cheater cam!!
Oh yeah, this is for the 271hp 289. This is what I was talking about when I said apples to oranges, the car comes with .450 lift for example, but if ford sends a spec sheet stating "upgraded" or "superceded", then they can do what ever they want. This is a big bone of contention with non-ford racers and the FE guys running "factory" 7 quart oil pans and shelby 428cj's with 2 4bbl's and an auto tranny. Hey, if shelby said he built them and signed his name, who is anybody else to debate him??
So, those solid cammed 289's don't qualify eh?? So drop some Hyd shubecks in a 225hp 289 (which have around .015 plunger travel) massive springs and a cheater cam!!
Just thought I would drag this to the top of the heap.
I'm getting a little further into this project and have a couple of challenges. We had the car on the chassis dyno and made a modest 105 hp at the wheels. The A/F ratio was up around 14.5-15. After inspection, I have found that the main jet is already a .116" from an AFB 4V carb. The metering rod appears to be the original. I'm looking for around 20-25 more HP and hope to find it through tuning. The compression is good at 185-195 in each bore. I also have a weight on the car now - 2615 lbs.
The rockers are stock adjustables and the lifters are, I'm told, made by Rhoads.
The HP curve is very flat; the converter stalls at 3900 and there is very little increase in power from there to 5300. (Approximately the end of the 1/4 mile with the 4.62 gear and 26" tire.
Any ideas?
I'm getting a little further into this project and have a couple of challenges. We had the car on the chassis dyno and made a modest 105 hp at the wheels. The A/F ratio was up around 14.5-15. After inspection, I have found that the main jet is already a .116" from an AFB 4V carb. The metering rod appears to be the original. I'm looking for around 20-25 more HP and hope to find it through tuning. The compression is good at 185-195 in each bore. I also have a weight on the car now - 2615 lbs.
The rockers are stock adjustables and the lifters are, I'm told, made by Rhoads.
The HP curve is very flat; the converter stalls at 3900 and there is very little increase in power from there to 5300. (Approximately the end of the 1/4 mile with the 4.62 gear and 26" tire.
Any ideas?
