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Anonymous
Guest
Can the port divider be installed using the epoxy that CobraSix used while the head is on the car?
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Anonymous
Guest
i dont know but the epoxy is in the mail and i will have the port divider installed by the end of the weekend hopefully. Course, I won't be able to put many miles on it immediately to check for long-term stability, but I should at least be able to advise about installation.
If you wait a week or so I should have some preliminary results that I will post.
-Dan in Atlanta
If you wait a week or so I should have some preliminary results that I will post.
-Dan in Atlanta
You should be able to. Just be prepared, this isn't usually a 30 minute job. It takes about an hour of cutting and grinding the port divider in order for it to fit. I've installed 2, first one took about 20 minutes, second one took about 90 minutes.
When I pulled the first head for the the Aussie replacement, after 1 year and 10k miles, the port divider was still in there solid.
Slade
When I pulled the first head for the the Aussie replacement, after 1 year and 10k miles, the port divider was still in there solid.
Slade
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Anonymous
Guest
CobraSix":36dcfcx0 said:
I'm very used to that. Nothing seems to go as planned with this car.
I just didn't want to have to pull the head again. I just replaced the head gasket with one of the metal ones - haven't even started the engine yet.
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Anonymous
Guest
I got my "pyro-putty 2400" in the mail today from Aremco. I was real impressed, it is nicely packaged in a right-sized box and nothing rattled when i shook it. Inside was a pint sized paint can of putty, some putty thinner in another bottle, some flyers for other products and a tongue depressor for application. That detail really got me, I could make something myself or use a putty knife, but they even included the depressor for me; I thought that was pretty cool.
One concern I have is that it says to add a max of 10% by weight of thinner to the putty. I haven't looked at the putty yet, but I'm not really sure how i would mix them by weight without going to a lot of trouble. I think I will just mix it till its somewhat malleable and call it good.
The instructions say, and I have read elsewhere, that to clean the surface you should wire brush it as best as you can and use some lacquer thinner, which is not the thinner that came with the putty. Metals that are exposed to oil and contaminants over a long period of time have a tendency to absorb some of the contaminants. To burn these off you should heat the area with a propane torch for a short while. I figure you should let it cool and then you are ready to go.
After application it says it needs to cure 18-up to 48 hours at atmospheric temperature and then idle the engine for 10-15 minutes to fully cure. I think I am going to install the port divider and put my old manifold on and after idling take it back off. I don't want to install my headers and I don't want to run the engine with no exhaust system installed because I have heard that will warp the head. I'll take the manifold off and inspect and if it looks ok I will go ahead with the installation of the headers. It will blister if it didn't stick. Otherwise you need to let the surface cool and then scrape off the blistered putty material and re-apply.
This putty is made from a stainless steel base and so it should match the expansion of steel and iron pretty well. It says it does temperatures up to 2000°F, which should be a bit above the 1200-1400°F that I would expect to be usual operating temperature.
So that is my plan. Hopefully I can do most of it this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes. Lemme know if this sounds like a good or bad plan to yall.
-Dan in Atlanta
One concern I have is that it says to add a max of 10% by weight of thinner to the putty. I haven't looked at the putty yet, but I'm not really sure how i would mix them by weight without going to a lot of trouble. I think I will just mix it till its somewhat malleable and call it good.
The instructions say, and I have read elsewhere, that to clean the surface you should wire brush it as best as you can and use some lacquer thinner, which is not the thinner that came with the putty. Metals that are exposed to oil and contaminants over a long period of time have a tendency to absorb some of the contaminants. To burn these off you should heat the area with a propane torch for a short while. I figure you should let it cool and then you are ready to go.
After application it says it needs to cure 18-up to 48 hours at atmospheric temperature and then idle the engine for 10-15 minutes to fully cure. I think I am going to install the port divider and put my old manifold on and after idling take it back off. I don't want to install my headers and I don't want to run the engine with no exhaust system installed because I have heard that will warp the head. I'll take the manifold off and inspect and if it looks ok I will go ahead with the installation of the headers. It will blister if it didn't stick. Otherwise you need to let the surface cool and then scrape off the blistered putty material and re-apply.
This putty is made from a stainless steel base and so it should match the expansion of steel and iron pretty well. It says it does temperatures up to 2000°F, which should be a bit above the 1200-1400°F that I would expect to be usual operating temperature.
So that is my plan. Hopefully I can do most of it this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes. Lemme know if this sounds like a good or bad plan to yall.
-Dan in Atlanta
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Anonymous
Guest
sounds like you've got it all figured out. I'm interested to see how it all goes. About a year ago I pulled my divider out cuz the welds broke and it was rattling around. I've been driving w/o it since and its fine, but I've thought of epoxying it, but like you wanted to do it with the head on. Are you doing it with the engine in the car too? Cuz I think thats what I would want to do.
mine was from www.cotronics.com
It is 2400* constant exhaust putty, and comes premixed in a syringe. it'll hold up to 3000* peak temp.
Slade
It is 2400* constant exhaust putty, and comes premixed in a syringe. it'll hold up to 3000* peak temp.
Slade
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Anonymous
Guest
Hey All,
I used epoxy to install the port divider Friday evening and Saturday I went back to check and the divider seems solid. The instructions say to idle the engine for 10-15 minutes after letting it set 24 hours so I idled it today with the exhaust manifold on the block but without the pipes on. Tomorrow I go back to remove the exhaust manifold and check the look of the putty. If it is all blistered i will have to start again. The divider was in there pretty solid today though.
To prep the surface I wiped it down with a rag really well. Then I got a rag and put some denatured alcohol on it and it got a lot more carbon off. Then I used a propane torch to heat the area for a little while and wiped the surface again with a rag. At the end of this process it looked clean and the rag didn't pick up any more carbon.
Applying the epoxy was pretty easy. It was in a pint sized paint can and there was a lot of liquid on the top and clay type consistency underneath but once I mixed it up it was pretty pliable and easy to use. I used generous portions and smoothed it out with my fingers on the sides. Today when I went back to the shop I scraped excess off with my fingers and a screwdriver and it came off pretty easily. I am pretty pleased so far.
I should note that I am using a lift in a shop. I have the car lifted above my head and I am doing almost all of my work and cleaning from underneath the car. From there I can see the port divider and where it is supposed to set. I think it would be much much harder to instal the port divider if i was standing up outside the car looking in because from that vantage point you cannot see the divider as you install it.
Probably the hardest part of the install was grinding the divider itself. I got a pretty good fit by putting it where it was gonna go, taking it down and grinding it before I ever got the epoxy out. After I epoxied the divider it was apparent that it was not flush and would not give a good fit so I got the grinding wheel out and ground on the divider with the head installed in the car. I was standing underneath. I stuffed some rags in the ports so that no errant sparks or pieces of metal would fall back into the ports. There was a lot of potential for disaster but I think it came out ok. I had a hard time seeing what I was doing even with a lift and a lot of lighting, I think it would be near impossible to do this standing outside the car.
I will let you know how it goes tomorrow and whether or not the epoxy stuck.
-Dan in Atlanta
I used epoxy to install the port divider Friday evening and Saturday I went back to check and the divider seems solid. The instructions say to idle the engine for 10-15 minutes after letting it set 24 hours so I idled it today with the exhaust manifold on the block but without the pipes on. Tomorrow I go back to remove the exhaust manifold and check the look of the putty. If it is all blistered i will have to start again. The divider was in there pretty solid today though.
To prep the surface I wiped it down with a rag really well. Then I got a rag and put some denatured alcohol on it and it got a lot more carbon off. Then I used a propane torch to heat the area for a little while and wiped the surface again with a rag. At the end of this process it looked clean and the rag didn't pick up any more carbon.
Applying the epoxy was pretty easy. It was in a pint sized paint can and there was a lot of liquid on the top and clay type consistency underneath but once I mixed it up it was pretty pliable and easy to use. I used generous portions and smoothed it out with my fingers on the sides. Today when I went back to the shop I scraped excess off with my fingers and a screwdriver and it came off pretty easily. I am pretty pleased so far.
I should note that I am using a lift in a shop. I have the car lifted above my head and I am doing almost all of my work and cleaning from underneath the car. From there I can see the port divider and where it is supposed to set. I think it would be much much harder to instal the port divider if i was standing up outside the car looking in because from that vantage point you cannot see the divider as you install it.
Probably the hardest part of the install was grinding the divider itself. I got a pretty good fit by putting it where it was gonna go, taking it down and grinding it before I ever got the epoxy out. After I epoxied the divider it was apparent that it was not flush and would not give a good fit so I got the grinding wheel out and ground on the divider with the head installed in the car. I was standing underneath. I stuffed some rags in the ports so that no errant sparks or pieces of metal would fall back into the ports. There was a lot of potential for disaster but I think it came out ok. I had a hard time seeing what I was doing even with a lift and a lot of lighting, I think it would be near impossible to do this standing outside the car.
I will let you know how it goes tomorrow and whether or not the epoxy stuck.
-Dan in Atlanta
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Anonymous
Guest
Today (Sunday) I went back and checked and after removing the exhaust manifold I took a look at the port divider. It was in rock solid. I couldn't budge it. The epoxy was very very hard, much different than yesterday. Idling the engne really cured it.
The headers were hard to get into their position in the engine compartment, but I got it. I put the headers on loose with new bolts and sized where to cut the exhaust pipe by installing it, marking it, and then removing it and cutting it and reinstalling it to check the fit. With the exhaust pipe installed like we wanted it my buddy then tacked on the new exhaust flange. We dropped the exhaust pipe again and he welded it spot by spot to avoid melting through the thin metal. We ground the weld down to look good. We reinstalled the exhaust pipe and it fit really, really well and it much easier to install and remove than it used to be. The pipe was so long before that it bridged over the tie rods straight back to the rear axle and it took some magic to get the pipe off. Now, the pipe doesnt catch over the tie rods any more so it is much easier to remove and install.
My headers were Clifford Headers with a single outlet. I installed the starter from underneath with the headers on and it was very tight to get the starter in. I think it would be impossible from above. I heard some people had issues with clearance of the copper stud that the starter relay attaches to, but I didn't. I then undid the 2 bolts that were holding the headers in and applied some permatex high temp gasket maker to the gasket. I dropped the gasket onto the headers and fastened them to the engine. It was hard, hard to get at the bolts. A racheting box end wrench was invaluable. There were a few bolts that I couldn't get a rachet onto because the header tube was too close and even a u-joint wouldn't make it. It was really tough fighting the bolts in but I won.
After completing this much of the installation I found that the throttle "bar", for lack of a better word, hit one of the header tubes. It kept the engine at part throttle and wouldn't let it idle. This is the little lever that the return spring attaches to and it hit the header tube just below the return spring hole. What I ended up having to do was grind the lever until it was shorter than where the spring hole was and drill a new spring hole. Then the lever worked fine.
Everything sealed up well and it sounds great. I have had an exhaust leak from the old exhaust manifold since before last thanksgiving and it sounds so good now. I think the sounds is a little deeper now that it ever was before. I still have stock exhaust tubing size as far as i know, it is pretty small so I wasn't expecting much change but the car feels good and sounds good so I am happy.
The last thing of note that I can remember now is that I made a tube for the exhaust riser tube. I got a length of 1/4" copper tubing and ran it down to a header tube and rant it along the header tube for a bit like one of the Schjeldahl's recommended to me. I hose clamped the copper tube to the header tube and wrapped the copper tube with some insulating material and hose clamped that on. It looks like a good clean install. I am not sure how well it works now, I have the choke stuck open because I was having trouble with it before. Can't fix everything in one day.
Hope that write up covered all the bases.
-Dan in Atlanta
The headers were hard to get into their position in the engine compartment, but I got it. I put the headers on loose with new bolts and sized where to cut the exhaust pipe by installing it, marking it, and then removing it and cutting it and reinstalling it to check the fit. With the exhaust pipe installed like we wanted it my buddy then tacked on the new exhaust flange. We dropped the exhaust pipe again and he welded it spot by spot to avoid melting through the thin metal. We ground the weld down to look good. We reinstalled the exhaust pipe and it fit really, really well and it much easier to install and remove than it used to be. The pipe was so long before that it bridged over the tie rods straight back to the rear axle and it took some magic to get the pipe off. Now, the pipe doesnt catch over the tie rods any more so it is much easier to remove and install.
My headers were Clifford Headers with a single outlet. I installed the starter from underneath with the headers on and it was very tight to get the starter in. I think it would be impossible from above. I heard some people had issues with clearance of the copper stud that the starter relay attaches to, but I didn't. I then undid the 2 bolts that were holding the headers in and applied some permatex high temp gasket maker to the gasket. I dropped the gasket onto the headers and fastened them to the engine. It was hard, hard to get at the bolts. A racheting box end wrench was invaluable. There were a few bolts that I couldn't get a rachet onto because the header tube was too close and even a u-joint wouldn't make it. It was really tough fighting the bolts in but I won.
After completing this much of the installation I found that the throttle "bar", for lack of a better word, hit one of the header tubes. It kept the engine at part throttle and wouldn't let it idle. This is the little lever that the return spring attaches to and it hit the header tube just below the return spring hole. What I ended up having to do was grind the lever until it was shorter than where the spring hole was and drill a new spring hole. Then the lever worked fine.
Everything sealed up well and it sounds great. I have had an exhaust leak from the old exhaust manifold since before last thanksgiving and it sounds so good now. I think the sounds is a little deeper now that it ever was before. I still have stock exhaust tubing size as far as i know, it is pretty small so I wasn't expecting much change but the car feels good and sounds good so I am happy.
The last thing of note that I can remember now is that I made a tube for the exhaust riser tube. I got a length of 1/4" copper tubing and ran it down to a header tube and rant it along the header tube for a bit like one of the Schjeldahl's recommended to me. I hose clamped the copper tube to the header tube and wrapped the copper tube with some insulating material and hose clamped that on. It looks like a good clean install. I am not sure how well it works now, I have the choke stuck open because I was having trouble with it before. Can't fix everything in one day.
Hope that write up covered all the bases.
-Dan in Atlanta
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