FastRonald
Well-known member
8) Has anyone set up the intake ports with butteryflys and added injectors behind them? There would be one long throttle shaft with six butterflys to regulate the incoming air.
intake question
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A
Anonymous
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because the site that is hosting those pictures is down...
FastRonald
Well-known member
8) Hope the site is back up soon..............looking forward to seeing the set up.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hey, FastRon;
I believe you're speaking of the Hond/Kaw/zuki motorcycle engines?
They all have one shaft with multiple butterflies and all the EFI equipment you might want, but 2 things apply:
1. The fuel pressures on the bikes are sized for 45-60 cu. in. engines, so pressures would have to rise accordingly to deliver the fuel from the injectors.
2. The injectors are downstream of the butterflies. Almost all of the bike injectors are made by Bosch (except the Italian ones, who make their own - must still be mad at Hitler or something.
)
Despite what you might think, EFI need not be complex, especially with long fuel runners. The bikes (until 1998) all triggered all 4 injectors at once, following cylinder #1 TDC plus some degrees for RPM advance. All of the "experts", including Cycle World magazine, declared these were multi-port injection engines - they forgot to ask us mechanics before publication time, I guess. :!:
Another example, although more complex, would be the GM throttle body "injection" systems so popular on the 350s: one hole, one pump, one solenoid, works fine. Needed an exhaust sensor, though.
The beauty of the bike-like approach is: get an injector from Bosch for each cylinder, then get an adjustable-pressure pump. The duration of the injector's 'open' time does not change significantly, (sort of like the EFI on the Ford Explorers of the 1990s) just the pressure and timing. The timing advances similarly to ignition timing, so there's already a good signal source if you use Duraspark. If you inject into vacuum manifolding, 2 different 'ON' times apply to the injectors, short and long. The short one is used at idle, the long at >1/3 throttle. The fuel pressure is low (40 PSI on an Explorer) until about 1200 RPM, then it goes high (80-something on the one we tested). Ford did this by running the constant-speed pump into 2 different restrictor holes, one for hi-PSI, both for low-PSI, using a solenoid valve to control the two.
If you think about it, this pretty well covers the whole RPM range, just like the bikes, with only 4 variables. Not too tough...
I believe you're speaking of the Hond/Kaw/zuki motorcycle engines?
They all have one shaft with multiple butterflies and all the EFI equipment you might want, but 2 things apply:
1. The fuel pressures on the bikes are sized for 45-60 cu. in. engines, so pressures would have to rise accordingly to deliver the fuel from the injectors.
2. The injectors are downstream of the butterflies. Almost all of the bike injectors are made by Bosch (except the Italian ones, who make their own - must still be mad at Hitler or something.
)Despite what you might think, EFI need not be complex, especially with long fuel runners. The bikes (until 1998) all triggered all 4 injectors at once, following cylinder #1 TDC plus some degrees for RPM advance. All of the "experts", including Cycle World magazine, declared these were multi-port injection engines - they forgot to ask us mechanics before publication time, I guess. :!:
Another example, although more complex, would be the GM throttle body "injection" systems so popular on the 350s: one hole, one pump, one solenoid, works fine. Needed an exhaust sensor, though.
The beauty of the bike-like approach is: get an injector from Bosch for each cylinder, then get an adjustable-pressure pump. The duration of the injector's 'open' time does not change significantly, (sort of like the EFI on the Ford Explorers of the 1990s) just the pressure and timing. The timing advances similarly to ignition timing, so there's already a good signal source if you use Duraspark. If you inject into vacuum manifolding, 2 different 'ON' times apply to the injectors, short and long. The short one is used at idle, the long at >1/3 throttle. The fuel pressure is low (40 PSI on an Explorer) until about 1200 RPM, then it goes high (80-something on the one we tested). Ford did this by running the constant-speed pump into 2 different restrictor holes, one for hi-PSI, both for low-PSI, using a solenoid valve to control the two.
If you think about it, this pretty well covers the whole RPM range, just like the bikes, with only 4 variables. Not too tough...
Gm did use what one of the engineers I used to work with as central point Injection. It was used on s-10s starting about '92 or '93. It consisted of 1 large injector with nylon plastic tubes running to the individual runners near the junction of the intake and cylinder head. In the s-10s 4.3 litre it was used on I think it about 205hp. I have no idea wheather or not it used a mass air meter.
This one might be a good one to convert to a I6! :idea:
The engineer that i worked mentioned that port fuel injecion conversion kit might be a good seller in the future, and i agreed but we could not get the bean counters interested.
This one might be a good one to convert to a I6! :idea:
The engineer that i worked mentioned that port fuel injecion conversion kit might be a good seller in the future, and i agreed but we could not get the bean counters interested.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hey 80BRONCOMAN,
Check out this link and scroll to the bottom of the page. Is that the injector assembly that your talking about?
http://www.carbs.net/Injector/injector.asp
It looks pretty simple.
How did you say to control it?
John
Check out this link and scroll to the bottom of the page. Is that the injector assembly that your talking about?
http://www.carbs.net/Injector/injector.asp
It looks pretty simple.
How did you say to control it?
John
Yes i think that is it, I have never seen one apart if a person could put longer tubes on it, It looks like it is a much simpler way to install on a stock type intake. if a person had a 200 log intake or a 1bbl 300 intake, you could get a the throttle body off of a gm vehicle tbi unit and just toss the fuel parts off of it. you would then have the idle air control and tps ready to work. of course you would have to modify a stock intake to take the throttle body.
Jim
Jim
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