Just got done adjusting valves, have some questions....

[Anonymous]

First of all, here is a little history on my engine. When I rebuilt my engine last year I converted the rocker arm assy. to the early adjustable type. When I set the valves the first time I set them cold. The lifters soaked in a coffee can for a month before they were installed due to a cam problem. Once I got the engine running, it ran fine and the valvetrain did not make any noise so I never touched the valves again (till now). After 1800 miles the engine started having problems. A couple weeks ago I pulled the valve cover to see if everything was ok. I decided to retorque the headgasket, while I was at it. Since everything looked ok, I figured I had some bad gas. Last weekend I drained my tank. I am pretty sure it is bad since it was yellow in color instead of orange. Before I put the valve cover on I wanted to re-adjust the valves.

I have read that you should have the engine warm when you do it, how important is that? The car hasn't run since early December. Before I adjusted the valves, I cranked the engine over, in short bursts, till I had a steady supply of oil coming off the rocker arms. Is this sufficient or should I adjust them again after I get it running? I am trying to aviod having to remove the montecarlo bar again. Also, some of the adjusters look like they are almost fully adjusted down to the rocker arm. Is this normal? I am using stock 170 pushrods. My head and been decked twice and the block once. I have no idea how much was taken off. Also, I am running a Comp 260 cam. Should I be thinking of getting longer pushrods? If so, where is a good source?

I plan on starting it Tuesday or Wednesday to see if it really was the gas.

 

[CobraSix]

Actually, most people I've talked to (and I've done it myself) prefer to adjust them cold first and let the engine run in a while (500 miles or about 1 month) and then re-adjust them when warm. Granted, this costs you an extra valve cover gasket, but it works well.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

goodmorning, when i did my adj. rocker swap i had to get new style pushrods. the stock 170's wouldn't work. the ones i got were cup on one end and round on the other. where did you get rockers that have a cup on them? thanks...frank...

 

[Anonymous]

Yup, I have the pushrods that have the cup on the end. Can someone answer me if there are different lengths? Do I need to re-adjust the valves again after I run the car?

 

[CobraSix]

I believe that if you adjust them when the car is cold you will need to adjust them when the car has warmed up but after about 500 miles or 1 month.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

I believe that if you adjust them when the car is cold you will need to adjust them when the car has warmed up but after about 500 miles or 1 month.

But according to the original post he has had them in for a year and run about 1800 miles on them, it's just been sitting through the winter....

so I would go ahead and make a warm adjustment here, Yes? have you adjusted them yet? I would warm the engine and set lash now.

The running problem might very well be unrelated. How was it after you changed the gas? Any better? You might also want to change the filter of you have not and clear any lines before you run new gas through... would not hurt to add some drygas to remove any water that may have found it's way into the tank.... also check the choke and moving parts on the carb they can gum up and stick after sitting for awhile.

I would go over everything with a fine tooth comb. Check for vacume leaks and timing/ignitioin related items. Check the choke and air mixture... rule out the little things, but if you make the valve adjustment now you can safely rule that out.

Hope this helps some... sorry I just read through this again, I am not sure about the rod length one of the other guys can answer that better... but if you are all the way down and you need more? then you should get langer rods. if all the way down is good, then seems to me you can get away with it..... it would all depend on if there was enough or not.... you should be able to get longer and shorter rods, you might have to special order a set from one of the larger companies...

 

[Falcon62]

...the stock 170's wouldn't work. the ones i got were cup on one end and round on the other...

Actually, the early 144/170 engines came with adjustable valve trains and ball and cup pushrods as stock equipment. There were necessary due to solid lifter cams. After the hydraulic cams became standard, Ford eventually did away with the adjustable lifters and went to a non-adjustable rocker. After that, the only way to adjust lifter pre-load was to change pushrod length or shim the rocker shaft assy.

Stock pushrod length is the same for all 144/170/200 engines - unless shorter pushrods (available from Ford) had been installed to accomodate block and/or head milling. Pushrods for 250s are longer because they have a much taller deck height.

As to adjusting valves, on a new engine, my preference is to adjust them cold. I do not soak lifters or pump them up in a coffee can. I lube the lifter base with cam lube, squirt the lifter bore and the ouside of the lifter generously with regular engine oil (almost always 30w) and drop the lifter in place. Once all the lifters are in, I start at #1 and adjust each int/ex valve on the base of its respective the cam lobe. You can do this in firing order sequence or simply rotate the engine until you see the valve close. I just go front to back.

As I adjust the valve I rotate the pushrod and feel for the slightest drag. By not pre-lubing the lifter or pumping it up, I can feel this easily. If you've followed the old school method, you'll need to bleed the lifter down to feel this slight resistance. Once I reach this point I then turn the adjuster 3/4 - 1 turn and that's it. No need to re-adjust later as lifter pre-load should be optimum, with the plunger in the approximate center of its travel. Hydraulic pressure should maintain 'zero lash' for several thousand miles and negate the need for getting back under the valve cover.

Oh, btw, I use cork VC gaskets 'glued' to the VC only - no sealant between the head and gasket. Works great, doesn't leak, and I can remove and replace the VC a fair number of times before needing to replace it. I suppose the neoprene style rubber VC gaskets will also seal in this manner, but I've never had much success with them. Seems no matter how I used them they always leaked, so back to cork I went. 8)

Also, some of the adjusters look like they are almost fully adjusted down to the rocker arm. Is this normal? I am using stock 170 pushrods. My head and been decked twice and the block once. I have no idea how much was taken off. Also, I am running a Comp 260 cam. Should I be thinking of getting longer pushrods?

This sounds just backwards to what is happening. If you start with a virgin head and block, and normal stock pushrod length, then as you remove material from the head and block the distance between the rocker assembly and the lifters gets shorter, not longer. This would necessitate shorter length pushrods, as were available from Ford at one time, to correct lifter pre-load and maintain proper rocker geometry. In other words, you should be backing the adjusters out as a result of the machining operations.

The only condition I can think of at the moment that would account for the adjusters being screwed all the way down would be flattened cam lobes or cupped lifters, both very undesirable conditions. Variations in head gaskets (composite vs stamped steel) could account for maybe .030", but should not be a factor.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info Falcon 62. I am not sure what is going on with my rocker arms. The adjusters were almost fully adjusted when I assembled the engine. Re-adjusting them did not change them much from where they were before. I am almost tempted to reinstall the original non adjustable rockers to be on the safe side. I don't know.....

 

[addo]

Why not fit lash caps? Quick fix there.

 

[Anonymous]

Why not fit lash caps? Quick fix there.

Sorry I am not following you. Could you please explain?

 

[Falcon62]

Tigger - A lash cap goes over the top of the valve stem and can aid in adjusting 'valve stem height'. For example, say you need a .060" longer pushrod, but none are available, then you might be able to accomplish the same thing by using .060" thick lash caps over the top of your valve stems.

I'm not aware of any lash caps for the SB6, not on this side of the big pond anyway.

 

[MustangSix]

I ran into a case of pushrods being too short after a rebuild. Baffled me for a while because I couldn't understand how I could mill the head, deck the block, and end up with a pushrod too short!

Finally figured out that the aftermarket cam I was using had a smaller base circle than the stock cam. Apparently some cam makers start with a stock cam core and regrind it. That reduces the diameter of the base. Most times, not a problem because there is plenty of preload to take up an additional .050-.060 of slack. But on this particular cam, the base circle was .100" smaller and the lifter preload wasn't sufficient.

Switched out cams, problem gone.

As far as periodic adjustment, that may be necessary on a mechanical cam. In fact it is a periodic service requirement. But if the cam is hydraulic, just set the preload and forget it. There is no need to go back and readjust the valves later. The large amount of preload available is one of the reasons most engines have no provision for adjustment at all.

 

[Falcon62]

Finally figured out that the aftermarket cam I was using had a smaller base circle than the stock cam. Apparently some cam makers start with a stock cam core and regrind it. That reduces the diameter of the base. Most times, not a problem because there is plenty of preload to take up an additional .050-.060 of slack. But on this particular cam, the base circle was .100" smaller and the lifter preload wasn't sufficient.

I was pondering that possibility as well. Actually, I was thinking of reground cams maybe causing the same condition, but not many people bother with regrinds these days except for mostly special applications.

Jack are you aware of any sources for lash caps for the SB6? I haven't run across any, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Just curious.

 

[addo]

The closest Crow offer is a 60 thou 0.343" one. A bit too sloppy, probably.

Adam.