Log head max compression

67chrrybucket

Well-known member
I have a direct 2v late model log head with 1.75/1.50 valves my question is ive seen the max compression ratio is 9.5 would it make any difference if you ran all e85 or 105 octane race gas or will the head just not stand up to anymore pressure?
 
Generally speaking (meaning within normal operating limits) any concern regarding maximum compression ratios are driven by the need to avoid pre-ignition/pre-detonation (or "pinging"). Certain head designs and certain materials from which heads are made may be more (or less, as the case may be) prone to detonation. One of the factors in pre-ignition/pre-detonation is octane; others include camshaft design and ignition timing. The bottom line is that although there are things you can do to prevent (or at least delay) pre-ignition/pre-detonation (such as using water/methanol injection), at some point it occurs. For the iron head 200, 9.5 CR is believed to be the practical maximum (again, with exceptions).

Although you could run e85 or race gas (and thus delay pre-ignition/pre-detonation), at some point this isn't cost-effective -- unless you have a lot of money or you are using the little 200 exclusively for racing.

So – can you run higher compression with the iron head; yes - it will physically take it – but at some point even with higher octane and water/methanol injection it will pre-ignite and, later, self destruct.

But why run a 10.5 (or 11.5 or 12.5) to 1 CR if it will cost you a great deal to do it?
 
Howdy All:

Other factors might be elevation- Higher elevation can allow a higher, safe CR. The Alcohol in E85 is a great cooler of the combustion chambers. Some race assoc. run blends or even straight alcohol with CRs as high as 14:1.

So, assuming a relatively stock 200- specifically, a stock cam, which generate relatively high cylinder pressures on regular pump gas at 87 octane rating at say 700 ft. elevation at a mild climate, 9.5:1 is a reasonable max limit, assuming a correct A/F ratio, light load/no lugging. In 1965, the stock 200 advertised CR was 9:1. Regular gas was 95 octane and leaded.

Although this is a good question and generates lots of thought, it is an unlikely scenario because anyone looking for max CR is likely looking for increased efficiency, not max CR alone. So if you were to add a cam with increased duration, ideal combustion chamber shaping and polishing, and efficient ignition advance curve and other pieces of a well planned combo, Max CR takes on a whole different discussion.

Just some thoughts. What brought up the question?

Adios, David
 
Im planning on building a supercharged 200 with a cam ported log head forged pistons and a supercharger raises SCR and DCR so assuming the engine runs a 9.0 to 1 the supercharger would put you way past saftey for 93 so i was trying to see if you could add insurance by running e85 or race gas which has 105 octane or if i would have ti severly limit my starting compression oh i would be running 6 to 8 psi
 
Dont forget heat. If you live in a hot climate your engine will not tolerate as much compression.

If you are going forced induction I would keep the cr around 8.5:1.
 
8) when running higher compression or running higher boost pressures, the absolute keys are a high quality head gasket, and controlling detonation. if you dont use a high quality head gasket, then you are just asking for trouble.

as for controlling detonation, that is rather easier, and there are many ways to do it:

1: tight control of the fuel mixture, and keeping it a bit rich

2: retarding the initial timing. sounds like a bad thing until you get the engine on a dyno and find the high compression engines and boosted engines actually dont like a lot of timing, most like the total timing in the 28 to 32 degree range

3: higher octane rated fuel. E85 has a rating of about 105, sunoco used to sell 104 octane fuel, some stations still do. some guys have even blended 110 octane aircraft fuel, do yourself a huge favor and pay the required road taxes if you go this route as it wont do to have your state revenue agency come down on your and impound your ride for not paying taxes.

4: use a cam with narrower lobe separation angles, this will reduce cylinder pressure at lower rpms and high loads, but wont hurt the power output overall.

5: use an intercooler on a boosted engine.

6: use nitrous oxide. i know it sounds counter intuitive, but think for a moment. nitrous is bottled in liquid form, and thus is much cooled than the air the engine ingests. as we all know the cooler the air that goes into the cylinders, the less chance of detonation. a 50hp shot of nitrous, as long as you remember to control that fuel mixture also, will cool the incoming charge by several degrees. i suggest a 50hp shot as the fuel mixture for that one is easy enough to control.

7: a time honored favorite, water injection. toss a drop of water into the cylinder, and cylinder temperatures will not rise above 212 degree until the water is vaporized, and that will take just long enough to stop detonation.
 
All good info just wondering about the taxes for blending aircraft fuel or using e85? I was planning on using corteco head gasket would that survive the 6-8 psi?
 
67chrrybucket":3j7b6jy3 said:
All good info just wondering about the taxes for blending aircraft fuel or using e85? I was planning on using corteco head gasket would that survive the 6-8 psi?

the road taxes are dependent on your state for aircraft fuel. check with your states department of revenue on that. e85 that comes out of the pump as automotive fuel already has the taxes included, unless you make your own E85, and then again you need to talk to the state revenue department.

as for the head gasket, the corteco gasket will handle a mere 8psi without issue.
 
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