Making buildup progress! Pulley alignment ?

[Anonymous]

Hey gang. We got the block buildup done today (crank, pistons, cam, timing, lifters, oil pan). The OZ head came back from the machine shop looking PERFECT. It's in paint right now (that means its on my workbench witha coat of primer on it!). The head will be going on earyly next week (metal shim gasket on the way)...the intake should be here shortly there after (right Mike? ). I should have some pics from tonight soon...buddy took a few tonight as we finished up.

Anyway, the purpose of this post was not to brag, but to ask about a pulley alignment problem. my water pump pulley sits too far forward of my new HiPo crank dampner's (from FSPP) INNER groove and too far back of the outer groove. I got a water pump from a 78 Fairmont as it was suggested they flow better. Based on the Handbook's info, this is NOT the long A/C style water pump, yet my pulley is forward of where I need it.

What do I do? I'd like to to line up with the inner groove as that's where my alternator will ride. I guess if I have to, i can run the pump from the front groove and the alternator from the rear groove, right? The problem is I dont know if I can shim the pulley far enough down the water pump snout to make it. Would I be better off getting an older waterpump or should I get the longer A/C style model in the later year to move the pulley out farther. Clearance won't be an issue as I'm going with electric fan.

Thanks all! Can't wait to get some photos up!

 

[Anonymous]

Beuhler, Beuhler?

Anyone with a suggestion on my pulley alignment issues? The alternator and inner crank groove line up fine, but the water pump nose semms to be too long. Do I need an earlier model (see details above)?

Thanks all.

PS: the head and headers are going on tonight (I think). Pics coming...

 

[MLINE]

If I understand you right. You should be able to put a spacer behind the water pump pulley to bring it out so it lines up with the outer groove.
I know they sell them for V8 water pumps, but I'm not sure about the 6's. My brother just made one out of wood and it's lasted forever.

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, i think i can space the pulley out, but I'd rather run it on the inner pulley if possible. If not, I can live with it on the outer.

 

[Anonymous]

Bryce,

I thought there were but two pumps, a long neck and a short one. I'd try picking a short one up just to see, can always take it back. Problem is getting a dual pulley for the short neck, someone suggested one from a 65 Mustang. RickWrench was looking into having some made awhile back and even posted a .pdf of it. I'm still thinking you are going to have clearance problems even with the electric fan, unless it's going in front, and in front didn't get it done for me. I'll post a pic of my current setup.

don

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry bout the pic's, but this shows the before and after. I had less than 1/2" clearance with the original rad. The 2 after pic's show the chevy S10 rad, I still have the triple pulley long neck pump, I have a short neck with double pulley to try as I want to get dual fans on there. The S10 rad allows you to, with some cutting, move it forward. Did have to move the battery to the other side also. I will get a better top hose also

 

[Anonymous]

I think that you must have the later water pump but a early dual belt pulley?? Even though it will physically bolt on the alignment is all wrong...

Mines basically the same as Don's shown above,

I'm also running the 78 Fairmont water pump, water pump pulley & alternator pulley, FSPP hi-po balancer & FSPP chrome t-stat housing.

Does your water pump pulley look the same as ours??

Later,

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

i thought I could use the stock single groove WP pulley on the later pump...guess not huh?! Ok, so i need a WP pulley from the same 78 fairmont..right? Is that an OTC part?

I'll have to hit Mike up for a chrome t-stat housing if you guys have it fitting! I was worried about clearance issues, but I guess there are none....cool!

 

[Anonymous]

Yep! t-stat housing fits fine with the smaller pulley. Junkyard part only....look for 78 & newer Fairmonts, Granadas & Mustangs should also have the same pulley setup....maybe even any 78 & newer 6 cylinder should have the right pulley

Good Luck!

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

thanks guys..I'll get searching.

 

[Anonymous]

would this cut it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 7915672650

would a V8 pulley work? Are the mounting holes for a I6 and V8 (say a 302) pulley different?

 

[Anonymous]

would this cut it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 7915672650

would a Vee-Eight pulley work? Are the mounting holes for a I6 and Vee-Eight (say a 302) pulley different?

http://www.rickwrench.com/
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... =waterpump

The V-8 will not work, I bought one off ebay advertised for a six but it was not. I don't know where RickWrench is but he can answer all these questions. I believe the dual pulley will line up with the shortneck and work, however there is a small clearance issue. In one thread someone said he had to grind a bit off the pulley to make it work and lost his timeing mark doing so. I had the short-neck on mine with the single groove at one point, it worked but was close. I hope to try it back this weekend with the double groove. I'll let you know if it lines up. The correct pulley should be about 5 and 5/8' diameter.

Part # is C4ZE 8509-A

 

[Anonymous]

I'd give my left :thumbdown: for the pulley he made!!

I just got off with a yard in NC. They have a 2 groove off an 80 Capri w/200. They want $32 shipped. Will it work?

 

[Anonymous]

I'd give my left :thumbdown: for the pulley he made!!

I just got off with a yard in NC. They have a 2 groove off an 80 Capri w/200. They want $32 shipped. Will it work?

I think the only consideration, if you are staying with the long neck, is to get a pulley made for it. So whether it's the dual or triple you should be fine. I guess one way to check would be to see what waterpump pulls up for that model. I can't think it would be different.

I get frustrated rereading my posts because they confuse me. The only point I was making was if space is a consideration, and you have to use the short-neck, then the dual from a early Mustang can be made to work.

I've got a one track mind.

Don

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again Don. Based on the Handbook, i have the shorter neck WP. THe handbook shows the long neck as having a closed face over the vanes of the fan inside. How do I know for sure though? Are there measurements out there that will make it obvious?

 

[Anonymous]

I looked on the NAPA site and these, I believe, are the longeck and shortneck.
The top pic is a 78 Fairmont, the bottom a 65 Mustang.

 

[Anonymous]

hmm...looks like my neck is long! Like I said, it was suggested that the 78 pump will flow more, but:

A. will it be noticeably more
B. will the earlier pump clear the chrome t-housing from FSPP
C. will I likley see clearance issues with the 78 pump?

Thanks again!

 

[Anonymous]

hmm...looks like my neck is long! Like I said, it was suggested that the 78 pump will flow more, but:

A. will it be noticeably more
B. will the earlier pump clear the chrome t-housing from FSPP
C. will I likley see clearance issues with the 78 pump?

Thanks again!

I'm surprised that someone who actually knows the answers to these questions has not responded My best is usally just to keep it alive until someone jumps in. The sole concern I had was your running into clearance problems similar to mine. The first picture showed 1/2" of clearance from a replacement 3 core radiator, no way to get a fan behind there. I don't understand how you could have any more clearance than I did. My plan for this weekend is to try the shortneck with the 65 double pulley. I'll report back with the results.

 

[PLP6400]

I had the same clearance problem with my 65 Ranchero. I had bought a complete 200 engine out of a 78 Fairmont. I had it rebuilt and put it back together using the 78 balancer and pulleys. As soon as I set the motor in, I new it wasn't going to work. I had to use a 1965 balancer with the bolt on pulley to give me two grooves and a double groove water pump pulley from a 1965 Falcon. I don't remember who I bought them from. It was either Falcon Enterprises or Northwest Falcons. I have a 3 core radiator, air conditioning and power steering. I have a flex fan that has a 2 1/8" depth to it and my clearance from the fan to the radiator is just a 1/2"
Hope this helps
Pat

 

[rickwrench]

I'm surprised that someone who actually knows the answers to these questions has not responded

Me...?
The early short pump is 4.0 inches from the block mounting surface to the pulley mounting surface. The late long pump is 4.75 inches.
Long and short pumps from the junk pile:

The early short double pulley is a real pain to find (early next spring, guys), the late long triples are dime a dozen.
As for pump flow, it's all in the design of the impeller, and that is REALLY a crapshoot.
Impellers on junk pumps:

There is also a cast impeller. Which is better? Good question!
Early thermostat housings have a smaller outlet neck than the many of the later housings, but the smaller size doesn't restrict flow because the biggest restriction in the system is actually the thermostat. Some are aluminum, some are iron, with slightly differing outlet angles. Use whichever you have, and match hose sizes.
Using a long neck pump on a roundbody with a stock radiator leaves no room for an engine driven fan. Unless you buy a flex fan with no hub backspacing, or use twin electric puller fans or a big pusher (which doesn't work very well). Moving the radiator forward, while a big job, was the best solution for me.
My Old no-backspace Fan:

I used the long pump/flat face fan setup for a while, but, with the A/C on, the flat fan design didn't pull enough air through the old radiator.
Other issues.
The early and late dampers are different diameters. The late damper is about a quarter inch bigger in diameter than the early. This can cause pulley interference when mixing late dampers and early pump pulleys.
Late damper:

Early damper:

I'd be interested in the diameter of the performance damper, if anyone has it.
Hope this helps.
Rick(wrench)