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Anonymous
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Just need a guess, but what would ya'll say is the max boost that the 200-250 6ix stock internals will take. And thats with a proper sized turbo, and maybe an air-water(ice) intercooler. 20#s?? Anyone?? 
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Anonymous
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So do you think 20#s is outta reach, or no?? 
With stock internals, I wouldn't count on more than about 8 PSI boost if you want a long and hppy life. Air/water intrcoolers don't work real well on street machines, no way to keep the ice supply cold. If you're building a strip-only machine, why specify stock internals?
I've seen a couple of projects here where they used water-air IC's with a separate (larger) exchanger for the cooling water. Water was circulated by use of a 12V pump; speed of the pump determined by either coolant temp or throttle position.
But if they were all that good, you'd probably see more of them. Probably adds a fair whack of weight and loading to the system in itself.
But if they were all that good, you'd probably see more of them. Probably adds a fair whack of weight and loading to the system in itself.
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Anonymous
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I'm not trying to decide on an intercooler, I'm just trying to get an idea of where the stock bottom goes south. I know you cant really say 'boost' like a hp #, and an actual # would be more accurate, but that takes a dyno. So we'll assume that its a turbo sized for the 200-250, 20#s/boost (det-free), with an air-water intercooler.
StrangeRanger, I dont think a 'long and happy life' is in the future for this one I dont think I made myself clear enough. I plan to only run <10# for regular driving. Actually probably as low as I can. When its time to race, in goes the ice and crank the boost [way] up (~20#). So I'm not looking for it to handle 20# daily. Not even close to daily. I'm just need to get an idea on how far togo on my 'race' tune as far as the boost goes. You ask why the stock internals? Simple, its cheap (lol). I'm on a hella budget!! If I wanted to build a motor, I'd just drop a turbo'd 350 in my S10...
I probaly wont even go with air-water, but I'm using it in this example. I might end up goin with somthing way simpler(/cheaper), like alky/cold-water inj + chilled fuel. Should get me as much temp drop as a good intercooler. Like I said, a raceday only type deal with the ice et. so its not a big deal at all
Post up guys!!
StrangeRanger, I dont think a 'long and happy life' is in the future for this one
I dont think I made myself clear enough. I plan to only run <10# for regular driving. Actually probably as low as I can. When its time to race, in goes the ice and crank the boost [way] up (~20#). So I'm not looking for it to handle 20# daily. Not even close to daily. I'm just need to get an idea on how far togo on my 'race' tune as far as the boost goes. You ask why the stock internals? Simple, its cheap (lol). I'm on a hella budget!! If I wanted to build a motor, I'd just drop a turbo'd 350 in my S10...I probaly wont even go with air-water, but I'm using it in this example. I might end up goin with somthing way simpler(/cheaper), like alky/cold-water inj + chilled fuel. Should get me as much temp drop as a good intercooler. Like I said, a raceday only type deal with the ice et. so its not a big deal at all
Post up guys!!
I've read at the Holley.com
This info is from there Supercharger help pages, I don't think Turbo info would be to different than what they are saying!
http://holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/SCTech.html
Remember the inercooler will help create more HP, it does nothing in helping prevent the engine from coming apart!
They have a great chart on Effective Compression Ratio Sorry you'll have to visit the link below I couldn't copy and have it stay in order.
This info is from there Supercharger help pages, I don't think Turbo info would be to different than what they are saying!
http://holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/SCTech.html
Remember the inercooler will help create more HP, it does nothing in helping prevent the engine from coming apart!
66Sprint6
Famous Member
The GN guys run air/air intercoolers and then alky to run boost levels of up to 23lbs of boost or so. Not sure what their stock output is, but its QUITE an increase with a simple alky only install. Im not in ANY way saying we will be able to run 23lbs on a stock motor, Im tryin to imphasize(sp) the increase in boost over stock.
Matt
Matt
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Anonymous
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Mustangaroo, thanks but thats w-a-y outta the budget [lol]
I think it'd be worth a shot... Keep the tech comin guys!![/b]
Great point. I also hear all the time 'boost doesnt kill engines, det kills engines...' So if I got my charge cooled down + low compression + alky, I think I'll push for 20#s. Does10s is running what, about 13#s with an air-air, and theyre runnin high 12s now[!!]. It'll 'only' be an addt'l 7#s more... Maybe I'll have to find out the hard way :roll:66Sprint6":wspazuzy said:
I think it'd be worth a shot... Keep the tech comin guys!![/b]
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Anonymous
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Well, tech speaking that is, if det kills motors, then the intercooler would help 'prevent the engine from coming apart' by eliminating the det issue from running high boost with no intercooler...Mustangaroo":42o68xnb said:
The question was....Just need a guess, but what would ya'll say is the max boost that the 200-250 6ix stock internals will take
If your stock engine has Static Compression Ratio of 9:0.1
then your new C/R will be:
12psi=16.3:1 14psi= 17.6:1 16psi=18.8:1 18 psi=20.0:1 20psi=21.2:1 22psi=22.5:1 24psi=23.7:1
The high compression is why they make FORGED PISTON @ $75.00 EACH!
I don't care how or if you intercool your engine what's keeping your stock cast pistons from imploding when your C/R is above 17:0.1? Hell with a stock engine at 24 psi you probably couldn't tune and get one good test drive out of the engine before it explodes!
I provided the link to the Holley site because they had some very good information on what you have to do to run high boost, wheather it's a Turbo or Supercharger the boost they produce does the same thing to your stock engine parts! You can do anything you want and can afford, I'm just saying for a daily driver on a stock block you should not plan on running over 8 psi Unless you have the money for an engine rebuild in the bank! I'm running 10 psi and yes I have the money in the bank to rebuild my engine when/if it explodes!
Does10's is a drag/race car not a daily driver and I'm sure will would say on any pass it could be it's last run on his stock block!
The intercooler will help getting more HP! Your stock piston will implode quite fast once you increase boost past 12 psi (in a daily driver) now if you just ging to race it every other week go for it!~ But if your going to try and drive it everyday with boost over 12-15 psi on a stock ford block with stock pistion, then you need to start today saving for that major engine rebuild!
If your stock engine has Static Compression Ratio of 9:0.1
then your new C/R will be:
12psi=16.3:1 14psi= 17.6:1 16psi=18.8:1 18 psi=20.0:1 20psi=21.2:1 22psi=22.5:1 24psi=23.7:1
The high compression is why they make FORGED PISTON @ $75.00 EACH!
I don't care how or if you intercool your engine what's keeping your stock cast pistons from imploding when your C/R is above 17:0.1?
Hell with a stock engine at 24 psi you probably couldn't tune and get one good test drive out of the engine before it explodes!I provided the link to the Holley site because they had some very good information on what you have to do to run high boost, wheather it's a Turbo or Supercharger the boost they produce does the same thing to your stock engine parts! You can do anything you want and can afford, I'm just saying for a daily driver on a stock block you should not plan on running over 8 psi Unless you have the money for an engine rebuild in the bank! I'm running 10 psi and yes I have the money in the bank to rebuild my engine when/if it explodes!
Does10's is a drag/race car not a daily driver and I'm sure will would say on any pass it could be it's last run on his stock block!
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Anonymous
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Thats what I was lookin forMustangaroo":30k0o11l said:
Yeah, it'll be mainly for grudge/str*et racing, but I want to drive it on the street when I feel like it.
Hell, even it I blow it up I know where to get another 6ix for 100 bux. That or I'll just sell the I6 turbo setup and take the $$$ and turbo my S10 (+SBC350) or start on my big block stang
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Anonymous
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wow. Speaking of stock pistons, theres some guys over at TM.com running some high boost(~20#s +/-) on stock 302/351W bottom ends and stock long blocks. Could the stock cast I6 pistons be that much weaker than the cast 302/351W pistons?? If youre 100% then those guys running 20psi on stock pistons shouldnt even be able to "tune and get [not even] one good test drive out of the engine before it explodes", right??Mustangaroo":2wdwrkfe said:The intercooler will help getting more HP! Your stock piston will implode quite fast once you increase boost past 12
...I don't care how or if you intercool your engine what's keeping your stock cast pistons from imploding when your C/R is above 17:0.1?
Hell with a stock engine at 24 psi you probably couldn't tune and get one good test drive out of the engine before it explodes!
Aftermarket internals are out of the question for this project. I just want to see how fast I can go on a low budget, made possible by the stock parts.
You seam to not be able to grasp the fact that nothing is 100% when you start boosting an engine. I tried to point you to Holley.com for you to read yourself and learn about some of these things for yourself. I have been only trying to help you from making a big error in judgement, I really don't care what you do now, have a nice day!
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Anonymous
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Yeah, it seems to vary quite a bit. I dount I'b even do a 302. The 351W is alot beefier. Ive heard of the 351W block holding 750+ hp w/o a sneezeKstang":1cwew3m5 said:
Yeah. I'm talking about the cast ones tho
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Anonymous
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Woah, chill out guy!! You seem to not be able to grasp the concept of sarcasmMustangaroo":2vfgk33x said:
*notice the use of s m i l i e s :roll:
