Message to "Genius at Work". Think on this.....

xctasy

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The following are your images from the X-flowChronicles section of this forum. They are here to demonsatrate what I'm proposing.

hese shots show the 9.469" deck 250 US block, not the ~7.830" 200 US block. The 1.64 or so inches of lowere deck saves about 150 pounds of metal on an Aussie 200 cross flow, but leaves insufficient space for the stock US distributor to fit, as the stock carby intake manifold crashes down on it.

Even early Aussie 250 cross-flows could run into problems with the dissy fouling the intake manifold.



crossflowassembled2.JPG


2vmockup2.JPG



But the EFI intake rail is very compact, moves out for only 2/5 inches, then joins the upper intake manifold which sweeps up to the top of the hood. Becasue the lower intake gets truncated by a flange with 12 bolts at 90 degrees to the head bolts, it shouldn't foul the stock dissy. My idea is to grap some aluminum or steel tube bends, replicate the upper intake of the EFI, and shove *three 46 X 93.5 mm flanged adaptors to fit three 40/42/45 DCOE Webers on it. Simply let the carbs sit over the centre of the engine, where they will be unperturbed by the sideforces you'll generate. No, its not perfect, but it'll package , maybee without a small bump in the hood.

I'd say DCOE's would be very cheap at the moment, and its hard to think that there would be any fuel suspension or freezing problems in Florida. If they are set up correctly, the'd be economical and powerfull. Lotus Sevens with the Holby 97 cube Twin Cam Ford engine had 126 hp, 113lf-ft, and were very tractable. Be nice to get 220 Hp!

Have a think about it.



*asside from the spelling errors, "three 46 X 93.5 mm flanged adaptors" should have read "three DCOE flanges". Back of the class again :(
 
If the distance from the distributor to the deck were the same distance on the 200, I wouldn't have a problem. But the 200 is a lot shorter and it's actually the #1 intake port itself that is facing the top of the distributor posts. For that reason the EFI fuel rail will not fit either.

My solution is to build a new manifold with angled intake runners that slope downward to the head. The runner will then be high enough over the dizzy to clear the wires. Another possibility is to have a stock or aftermarket intake angle milled to clear the dizzy.

My other thought is to build a DIS system that eliminates the distributor altogether.

Finally, a buddy of mine was showing me a 90 degree angle drive that he had to use in his blown Hemi dragster.
 
MustangSix":1oocoqg7 said:
My other thought is to build a DIS system that eliminates the distributor altogether.

Are you talking a distrubitorless ignition? If so, how would you go about it? Would it be as simple as just replacing the coil with a coil pack that that shot spark to each cylinder?
 
I've been talking with some people about using a Ford EDIS module in conjunction with a simple microprocessor that can give me an rpm adjustable timing curve. I'm willing to give up a load-sensing curve (vacuum) for the sake of simplicity. That's a ways off, though.

Another distinct possibility for this engine is to drive the distributor off the front of the cam. On this car I have plenty of room for that and it would be a simple matter to drill a hole in the timing cover, add a support block, and modify the distributor. I can use an old LoadOMatic shaft and housing to drive the oil pump.
 
I think it is msd that makes a drop in replacment for your dizzy for running a dis setup. basicly a billet housing with a plug on the top for the sensor. I think the guts are basicly some gm stuff (looks like a gm abs sensor or something like it) so all you need then is the msd box to run it all. base timing is still changed the same. I would think they could make you one on special order if they don't have something close to fitting for it (not sure about another ford or other that could be modded to fit)

nick
 
Head over to the MegaSquirt page and look for the MegaJolt. I believe that thee is already a distributorless ignition there based on the Ford system.
 
I've been looking at the Megajolt Lite pages, but the problem with that is that it doesn't currently have a controller to provide a SAW signal to alter the advance. Without that piece of the puzzle, the EDIS stays at 10 degrees advance (limp home mode).

I have some ideas I'm going to try out this weekend.
 
I thought that this idea was great. I have been wanting fuel injection and distributorless ignition in the truck for many years, and I spent a great deal of time running around the "MegaSites" yesterday. Here is an excerpt fromt he MegaJolt page
...However, "light" does not mean lacking in features - here is a partial list:

Fully programmable ignition advance, using off-the-shelf Ford EDIS module and wasted spark ignition coils.
MJL-EDIS can be operated either in fully independent mode or can be assembled as part of the MegaSquirt EFI controller system for complete engine management.
Knock Detection for controlling ignition advance.
Fully-programmable 8x8 RPM/load map ignition advance table with additional control for coolant temperature.
Crank angle position is measured using a 36 minus one tooth crank wheel and VR sensor setup.
Tachometer output - can be used for direct MegaSquirt tach drive, as well as aftermarket tach gauges.
IAC stepper motor control circuit for MegaSquirt ECU installations, provides full idle speed control. Additional idle control using advance is also available.
All parameters are adjustable using the PC Configurator-EDIS software - available for free download here.
Based on this, the advance is programmable, although maybe not infinite. I am not an expert in wasted spark systems, so I cannot pass judgment, but what would a SAW signal interface provide in addition to this?
 
A few words you missed:
...........still in the prototype stage and will be a while before it is ready for release........
Those features are the ones they hope to incorporate, but are not yet available.

It's the SAW signal that tells the EDIS when to fire the coils, giving you an advance curve. In the EEC, that's based on an ignition map, but if the EEC fails to provide it for some reason, ignition component failure, for example, the EDIS still fires at a constant 10 degrees BTDC as a "limp home" mode.

The SAW currently comes from the EEC module, but MJ lite is supposed to have a standalone programable module that provides this SAW function for the EDIS.
 
Jack, does it seem possible you could retro fit a ford car with EFI and a distrubitor?

I think something like this would give cars with distrubitors a bit of a more constant spark and maybe afew HP.
 
You can add EFI without adding ignition control. That's what Megasquirt and the basic SDS system do. Ignition is provided by the distributor.
 
I read all that to mean that the Lite version had the programmable advance in an 8x8 lookup table. I will look again.
 
Guys, I came up with an idea during Western Civ class tonight that I feel is ground breaking, however you may feel it's old news or totally worthless.

First off, I sold a distrubitor cap and rotor to a guy that had either an S10 or a blazer the other night. The cap was less than an inch and a half tall. The connectors came out the side instead of the top.

This gave me the idea to take this concept a step father. Picture a distrubitor cap similar to that with 2 plugs. The first would be a constant 12 volts (similar to the way the coil plug on a regular distrubitor works) off the alt. The second plug would work the same as the #1 plug for the #1 spark plug. The rotor would turn the same. The output plug (called #1 above) would run into a coil and be a clock pulse. The coil would read the clock pulse and adjust the spark advance accordingly.

Being as the distrubitor turns with the speed of the motor, this would be a very easy way to adjust the spark advance without getting into vaccumn or anything.

Let me know if I have went totally off the deep end on this one.
 
Quickly put it out of your mind. A rotor & cap connection is for HIGH voltage only, that can jump a small gap that must be kept between those 2 contacts or they would destroy each other if they really touched. I am assuming the rotor doesn't touch the cap contacts. I've never ohmed them out to confirm or debunk my assumption. I could go on, but I'll take my own advice and quickly put it out of my mind. :P
 
DaGr8Tim":1exftzk0 said:
Jack, does it seem possible you could retro fit a ford car with EFI and a distrubitor?

I think something like this would give cars with distrubitors a bit of a more constant spark and maybe afew HP.

Some engines like the later 2.3/2.5L OHC Ranger engines had DIS and no distributor. BUT all you had to do was machine the distributor mounting hole and hold down into the block and you were good to go. The same cam with the am gear and all were used
 
The mitsubishi engine in the minivan I used to own used optics in the distributor for spark management.

A position sensor mounted in converted distributor could work. D Great One, it would work. A relusctor ring with a Hall sensor similar device is all you need. in fact, Chevy uses a 40 tooth reluctor ring on the output shaft of transmissions for the speedo. Mount that on a distributo shaft along with an appropriate pickup with about a .060 air gap, and you are off and running. Hosever, you must remember that the distributo runs at 1/2 the speed of the crank, which is usually used for engine position sensors.
 
Getting engine and cam speed is easy. I can pick up those from a toothed wheel and hall sensor, optical trigger, or reluctor. The hard part is then taking that engine/cam speed signal and timing it to give you the proper advance curve for a given speed and load.
 
MustangSix":2t7xdlyc said:
Getting engine and cam speed is easy. I can pick up those from a toothed wheel and hall sensor, optical trigger, or reluctor. The hard part is then taking that engine/cam speed signal and timing it to give you the proper advance curve for a given speed and load.

My thought was for the coil to have a small very basic microprocessor that would use that clock pulse as a timer to time the spark.

I've made simple counters in some of my electronics classes. This concept is like the clock pulse inside your computer. It may be possible to rig up a PLC to do the job.
 
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