My 2V has to come out?

[Anonymous]

Oh dear, I looked the other morning underneath my Cortina 250 2V to check on my rear main seal leak. Its got a alot worse rapidly and now I dont think I can drive it safely.
I have a few questions as Im fairly new to this hands on work (pulled engine out and one in only once myself).
I am not too dismayed about pulling the engine out after only about 5000 ks on new engine to replace the main seal as I want to replace the cam also and it will probably be easier with it all out anyway.
This is with one exception if it leaks badly again it will have to stay in the garrage for a very long time maybe even indefinitely. So any advice I can get on what I can do to do a better job of it please feel to tell me (would a latter neopreen seal fit?) (whats a good gasket kit)
I think I may have to cut and remove the headers as they do not pull far enough away from the head to pull out the engine. Ive got an original heavy duty 2V clutch (different from the clutch fitted to the log heads) from Tilleys to fit as well.
And just one other question should I replace the moly rings with new ones. Ive only done low ks (5000ks) since rebuild, but Im thinking while its out, should I re-hone it and fit new rings?Or is this unnecessary. I will be reving it to 4800rpm occasionally next time the engines back in.
Any advice would be valued.
Cheers Tim

 

[xctasy]

Hey Tim, do a search on leaking main seals. There are kits which allow the repair of this at minimum cost without hauling out your engine. The earlier rope seals do have an issue that if its not done to spec, you get big leaks. The later XE and XF versions had there own new type of main seal.

Hang in there, get some info.

I do remember seeing a post for a 100 Us dollar repair of the main seal on a later US 200, but I can't remember where it was. It was back in March Noughty3, methinks.

I've grown very, very wary of rope main seals. David Vizard found they work super-well when pre-soaked and then tested for drag resistance on the crank. He said they are heaps more reliable. The modern neoprene seal crank has less machining work as it doesn't have that knife egde slinger, and a less affected by shoddy build procedures on the production line. When neoprene seals fail, they are worse than rope seals.

There is no way you can change from factory rope seal to neoprene types without a machining operation now. There are special kits that can be added which act as a backstop.

 

[Anonymous]

The engine builder I got to do my engine was the best I could find and came very highly recommended. Although he could have got his workers to do it for him because I wanted a little bit extra done he assembled the engine himself.
When I first got the leak I took it back and he said he would be very surprised if it was leaking if it was a rope seal (it is).
Thanks for the help Ill search to find some more info.

 

[Anonymous]

This is a previous post by rickwrench
I myself would definitely let somebody else do it for $150.00! It is a nasty, dirty job. I've done this one a few times, and the novelty has worn off.
The procedure for "cheating a rope seal" is:
Drop the oil pan, and try to yank the half of the old seal behind the crankshaft out with a pair of pliers or a hook. Sometimes a miracle happens and most of it comes out. To get the rest out use a heavy guage solid COPPER wire to poke and scape it out. Use copper because it won't scratch the seal surface. After an hour or so of fun, laying on your back in a pool of oil, you ought to have 99% of the old crumbled seal out. Take about two feet of solid copper wire and stab the wire through the end of the new seal about 3/8 of an inch from the end. Lube up the seal and seal passage with motor oil (or lubriplate, or vaseline) and pull the seal through using the wire until about the same amount sticks out on each end. Snip off the wire and jam as much of the seal back up into the slot as you can, and then trim it nearly flush. Put everything back together.
If you are fast, you could probably get the whole job done in an hour or two, start to finish. It's not a very hard job, just very dirty and very tedious. How much is your time worth?
Rick(wrench)
Execute.
Found some info that may be useful as follows, they are intended to weap a bit (fine line between a weep and a flood if you ask me!) also to use a bit of silicon, leave rope soaking overnight, have the ends of the ropes off centre a bit and to make sure that the mains are checked for clearance (ie if there is any wobble in the crank the seal wont work).
A question
Are the cranks in the latter XEs you mentioned with the neoprean seals the same as my 2V crank or is the difference in the block.

 

[xctasy]

Pleased you could find that, I was sort of woundering if I was remembering things that were not there!


To answer your question:

Are the cranks in the latter XEs you mentioned with the neoprean seals the same as my 2V crank or is the difference in the block.

Both in the crank and in the block, Tim. Take a 83DA block and an earlier 71DA and they are different in these two respects. All else is the same. The earlier crank has a knife edge slinger which is lightly rubbed by the rope seal. A latter one has a 92 mm internal diameter neoprene seal which sits in a special rebate. I guess you could change it if you machined the block with a bore bare, gave it a new latter crank, and then filled in the rope seal crevice with silicone.

A good rope seal is just fine.

 

[alloydave]

Gidday Tim , The rope seal can be replaced by a 2 peice rubber alternative
.I dont know anyone who has used the 2 peice rubber seal to give you and indication of quality or durability ( i have sold a few to the trade)..I use ACL or NZ GASKETS which are both good .
I think in aussie NZ GASKETS are known as AA gaskets . You could buy the EP633 (AA GASKETS) bottom set which has every gasket from the head gasket down (doesnt include head gasket) .In NZ this set contains both the rope seal and the 2 peice rubber alterative . You could buy just the rear main seal and a sump set ....part numbers of seals are
HN055........ROPE REAR MAIN
HN064........RUBBER 2 PEICE ALTERNATIVE REAR MAIN.
EP633 (AA GASKETS) ......BOTTOM GASKET SET ...CONTAINS BOTH TYPES OF REAR MAIN.
HC257 ....SUMP GASKET SET
CP630 ...HEAD SET (DOES NOT INCLUDE 2V INTAKE GASKET)
HA294 ...2V INTAKE GASKET (ORDER SEPERATLY)
If your engine has been running good apart from the oil leak the rings will be good for a long time yet .If you decide to do the rings and have a new clutch to go in ,strip the block get it honed and take your new clutch , crank/flywheel and pistons/ rods and get it all balanced together.A nice balance job will have that engine pulling those RPMS no sweat.

cheers Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks a million
Ill chase up these serial numbers with a supplier in Tas or on the mainland. Now that you mention it Ive already had my engine all balanced and if I put that new clutch in on I may ruin the balance. Id better check on this first.
Strangely there are some strong adherents of rope seals but I think Ill still go for the rubber as it sould be easier for me to install.
Thanks both of you, for your help, cheers.

 

[LaGrasta]

I just had that done. I paid $200 for labor and it was done in a day with no removal of the engine. The did remove my tranny though.

 

[Anonymous]

Spent Saturday started working to pull engine out to change seal and cam etc.
Alloydave
I have searched but I cant find a supplier for those AA gaskets you mentioned. I would like them. Does anyone know of a supplier so that I can get them posted to me.
Tim

 

[alloydave]

Gidday Tim , i think they could be under the Permaseal brand name.
try this number +613 9355 444 or toll free 1800 620 895.
I think Repco may stock them but try those numbers to find a supplier.

cheers dave

 

[Anonymous]

Windsor V8 2 peice neoprene seal fits and works well to replace motors that originally had a rope type seal. Neoprene is much easier to install than rope. You need to drive the small pin out of the cap and plug it with silicone. Offset the joins of the seal by 9 to 10 mm from the joins at the cap and put a little silicone on the join. The ACL part number is HN 064.

Dom

 

[Anonymous]

Is it safe to put a "tiny" amount of silicon all the way around it to make absolutely sure it wont leak?

 

[Anonymous]

only on the joins at the end of the seal and the outside of the seal, just a very light smear. Definitely not on the edge that scrapes on the crank.
My machinist says he always uses these seals in preference to the rope seal.

 

[Anonymous]

Worked some more on it this weekend. Only problem is that I cant get the manual four speed BW gear shift off. I tried both methods 1 the three bolts on the side of the lever housing (just under tunnel). 2 the sheet metal housing that sits over the gearshift holding it down (one with all the fold down flanges on it). I could not move it at all (with at the flanges up), it feels like the mechanic I had put it on with lock tight on it. My gear level does not screw apart in the middle either.
Anyone ?

 

[Anonymous]

Tim,
There are two ways to remove the gear lever on a single rail,
One is to unscrew the plastic pivot from the selector housing. Lift all the tabs up and rotate the metal and plastic pivot in the selector housing.
The other way is to remove three bolts holding the housing to the transmission extension housing and to drive out the roll pin from the selector shaft.
This will separate the lever from the transmission.
Noel

 

[Anonymous]

Went to order that gasket set they could not get an EP 633 with the HN063 rubber rear seal (same as for 302 in post) and said that the closest was a ACL EP 631 and that it had the rubber rear seal.
Now its at home Ive had a closer look and it only has a rope seal. Id be dissapionted except on pulling my engine out I found no oil on the flywheel or clutch. The only place I could find oil was on the inside of the 4 speed bell housing and I still dont know where it is coming from (anyone?) Im taking the bell housing to my machinist tonight and am hoping he can tell me.
To get my cam out I had to put the engine on its side as the lifters were sliding back down when it was upright. I had to take the sump off to push the lifters sideways so that the cam would clear them on the way out. It binds on the fuel pump, dizzy, lifers and the crank depending on its position. Im thankful I didnt try and change the cam this while it was still in the car.
Anyone got any ideas about the leak?

 

[addo]

It may have come out your front bearing support on the borgbox. That's my best guess. You should find a "track" upon inspection.

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Addo
The machinist agrees with you. Its actualy the paper gasket i previously put between the gear box and the bell housing, stupid me didnt put gasket sealant on one side of it that is where the leak appears to be coming from.
Execute
After you posted about LSA and lighter cars I wanted to go tighter on LSA but COME cams charge 300 dollars for a cam plus $50 to change LSA.
I thought this was a bit too much as Wade charge $220 dollar for a cam and dont charge any extra for a change in LSA. So I have ordered the one below and should have it by early next week (has 108 LSA). It is still at least a 4800 rpm peak cam from what I can gather from the specs. Also Wade have many cams for my engine which made me think that there long time experience may be desirable.
The lift is still fairly conservative and I have been swayed greatly in favour of dual pattern cams. Possibly in particular for a 2V.


W A D E C A M S H A F T S P T Y L T D
A.B.N 62 004 544 996
Phone (03)9568 0333 Fax (03) 9568 2633 Email info@wadecams.com

Profile Actuation Make/Model R/Ratio
1495B/242C Flat Tappet Ford 6 cyl. (pre X-Flow) In1.5 Ex 1.5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cam Lift Duration Duration Valve Valve Cam Lift Phase
Adv @050 Clr Lift tdc <)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intake 0.284 281 210.5 Hyd 0.426 0.049 108
Exhaust 0.289 287 222 Hyd 0.433 0.045
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Timing Timing
Adv @050
Open Close Open Close
Exhaust 74 33 44 -2
Intake 33 67 -0.5 31
Deg Over-lap Deg Over-lap

 

[Anonymous]

Excuse the specs they came out wrong when copied. It is a 210.5/222 at 50 dur in 425 lift (approx quarter of valve) and 433 Ex lift, 108 LSA.