All Small Six Need Help With My Starter Problem

[Fred C]

Hello all, needing some advise. To re-cap I have a 63 Falcon with a 66 Mustang 200 ci engine and a 72 C4 Transmission.
I Have come to the conclusion that the ring gear on the torgue converter must be 132 tooth. I first bought the RobbMc Mini Starter - PN 3001 and after installing the starter and after numerous starts of the engine, the gear on the starter came apart on the shaft. My Mechanic called the company and advised them of this and they didn't offer to replace it. After that a starter from O'reilly's was installed but it sounds like a chicken in a blender when cranking. So my thinking is that the starter gear is not meshing with the ring gear so does this mean I must use a 132 Tooth starter? And on top of this I need a mini starter or a smaller starter since I have Headers. So where do I find the starter and what will work for what I need?

Any Suggestions?
Fred C

 

[John Ha]

There's a link in "The Ford Small Six Tech Info & Sticky Section" that goes to a starter discussion thread. Hopefully that will help you.

 

[Frank]

Hello all, needing some advise. To re-cap I have a 63 Falcon with a 66 Mustang 200 ci engine and a 72 C4 Transmission.
I Have come to the conclusion that the ring gear on the torgue converter must be 132 tooth. I first bought the RobbMc Mini Starter - PN 3001 and after installing the starter and after numerous starts of the engine, the gear on the starter came apart on the shaft. My Mechanic called the company and advised them of this and they didn't offer to replace it. After that a starter from O'reilly's was installed but it sounds like a chicken in a blender when cranking. So my thinking is that the starter gear is not meshing with the ring gear so does this mean I must use a 132 Tooth starter? And on top of this I need a mini starter or a smaller starter since I have Headers. So where do I find the starter and what will work for what I need?

Any Suggestions?
Fred C

Some applications are auto trans or manual trans specific, the depth of the starter snout is different.

 

[philford]

if you can find a starter with the correct pinion gear that mates with the ring gear you have but has a clearance issue, can you swap the gear on the starter?

if the shaft is the same, it is likely the tapered pin won't fit right due to discrepancies..

in that case you can use a tapered reamer to ream the hole to obtain a fit between the two.
you would need to pay attention to distance so it engages by the same amount with the new match.

metric and imperial tapered pins have different tapers so if you do this and use a metric reamer you need a metric pin , or the reverse.
I'd use a longer pin the same as the reamer , after the pin is fully seated cut the ends near to flush allow enough for one last hit after the pin is shortened up. the pins are not very hard so they can bend or mushroom.

If you buy a new gear it may have no pin hole or one straight hole drilled in the rough location but it may require fitting as above.

manufacturing gears is somewhat specialized, but also many are actually standardized, you may have a similar place in your area, this manufacturer ( see below) is pretty close to me, they make and sell gears, that's their business , you might try a different one if you can find a similar business closer to you. the actual gear can perhaps be purchased alone from other parts.

keep in mind you wont be their largest customer, these places cater more to industry, but I've had success too. better success rate in person with a smile since its easy to put he phone down and not help you.

often the pins have a rounded end, this is normally the big end, don't drive them backwards. sometimes I'll file the ends flat to make a comparison and it can take some up-close analysis to decide which way it needs to be driven when removing it.

generally one solid hit with a punch that is tapered down to an and that fits is better than a straight punch, and also supporting the shaft appropriately to achieve a solid hit.

its the first hit being successful that is immportant, a few lesser hits causes things to mushroom and created more difficulty.

possibly its a rolled pin, usually I think they are a tapered pin , you will see ,

if the ID or OD needs changing it may require reaming to fit or possibly a bushing to fill any gap. a machine shop can help if it seems daunting.

with starter removed inspect for roughness, it may be necessary to go around with a file to touch up any burrs, they can often be flipped for a fresh edge, but that requires removal of engine or trans. if its not is super bad shape Id try to fit the starter to the one you have.

in my car, my girlfriend got in started my car, wanted to move it... she revved it up but did not release the key it blew mine up and took out the flex plate so the engine couldn't' run either , I straightened it in place with much ado. I replaced the starter. I sat on the porch and shook my head. If you want her, I'll be happy to send a box lol.. ;-)

Vancouver Gear Works Ltd - 14551 Burrows Rd, Richmond, BC​

 

[Invectivus]

I bought a RobbMC starter for my 67 mustang with a 66 200/C4. It worked great. When I swapped to a T5 I had an extra tab welded on for the different bolt pattern without checking the needed pinion depth. You can see at rest there was still gear mesh, and on start the backing of the starter gear was pressing against the ring and is all chewed up. This was a me problem so I paid for the repair. I recall the information was vague on compatibility, because there can be a fair amount of difference from year to year, converter to converter, etc.

Mine needed more help than a gear replacement, you might be able to get yours repaired from a local shop? I have a couple starter repair shops in town here in California, not sure about your area.

FWIW, the mounting plate I needed for the T5 was the 302 plate, needed to weld another tab to it, but measured many times before doing it.

I really like my starter, it’s just a drag there isn’t a lot of accurate compatibility testing with our sixes.