All Small Six Please help! What parts needed? 83’Bigbell 3.3l mating up to ‘66 mustang C4 200L6

[eugenetsmith.gs]

So I’m trying to change out my old 200ci low compression oil burner and swap in a rebuilt ‘83 fairmont 200ci 3.3l. However, this 200 is apparently a 83 large bell 200 with low mount starter. I was able to find the big bell c4 bellhousing… but I’m at a loss to figure out what to do about mating it up with my ‘66 C4 24 spline shaft
-flex plate with or without starter ring? How many teeth??
-torque converter with 24 spine or 26” and with or without starter gear???
- change out spline to 24/26???? Or just use 24”
- what starter will fit this Frankenstein to rig it all up without destruction????


Thanks for your input!

 

[eugenetsmith.gs]

Here is my large log large bell anomaly. What’s the easiest route to mate up my 66 mustang’s old C4?
Or should I just try a fox body 5sp swap if that’s easier with what’s available these days!

 

[vssman]

The bottom mount starter 200 will not mount to a high mount bell housing. You need a low mount bell, which a SBF, should fit on most of the bolt holes (4 I think). I don’t know how to swap bells on the C4. They don’t just unbolt from the front pump housing? You’d need the right engine plate, flywheel, etc… for a low starter set up.

 

[78_200_C4]

A 24 spline 66-69 V8 C4 converter or a 1969 250 24 spline converter should work.
The flex plate will have the ring gear on it
You may have many other problems installing an 83 low starter six in an early Mustang.
There is no factory stick shift flywheel for the big bell low starter 200.
The 200 crank has a smaller bolt pattern than the V8 or the 250 so those flywheels will not fit.
The 200 flywheel will not work with the big bellhousing.

 

[powerband]

not a lot of 'big bell' 200 experience in the forum it seems.
.
not 'xperrt' by any means but aren't the big bell automatics FMX's or some other than C4? -
.
from MT' :
the C4 remained until production ended in 1982. At that point, Ford began production of the C5 Select-Shift, which was little more than a C4 with locking torque converter and revised hydraulics for fuel efficiency. Because the C5 has a wider bellhousing to accommodate a locking torque converter, it will not fit in the tunnel of your classic Mustang.
.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mump-1203-understanding-automatic-transmissions/

 

[78_200_C4]

not a lot of 'big bell' 200 experience in the forum it seems.
.
not 'xperrt' by any means but aren't the big bell automatics FMX's or some other than C4? -
.
from MT' :
the C4 remained until production ended in 1982. At that point, Ford began production of the C5 Select-Shift, which was little more than a C4 with locking torque converter and revised hydraulics for fuel efficiency. Because the C5 has a wider bellhousing to accommodate a locking torque converter, it will not fit in the tunnel of your classic Mustang.
.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mump-1203-understanding-automatic-transmissions/

A big bell 200 is a low mount starter 200. The "big bell" is the V8 or 250 type bell housing pattern which includes the C4.
The high starter 200 used the smallest bell housing pattern on the small sixes for the C4 .

 

[powerband]

as rare as ...
.
I had read that the 'low mount 200-Big Bell" block BH pattern was 'similar' to SBF , 250 is same as SBF
.
from Inline Pages archive:
.
250ci engines had low mount starters, which were mounted below the oil pan rim. However some 200ci engines, ... (1980-83), had custom bell housings (similar to a SBF bell) which utilized a low mount starter.
from previous thread, not mine :
The big bell is like the bottom 2/3 of the ford small block V8 bell-housing and you can mod them to fit, kind of.
.
pictures would solve a few ??'s
.
have fun
.

 

[78_200_C4]

The author already has a big bell 200 C4 bell housing.
The bell housing is not the problem.

 

[eugenetsmith.gs]

The bottom mount starter 200 will not mount to a high mount bell housing. You need a low mount bell, which a SBF, should fit on most of the bolt holes (4 I think). I don’t know how to swap bells on the C4. They don’t just unbolt from the front pump housing? You’d need the right engine plate, flywheel, etc… for a low starter set up.

i did get on ebay 83 large bell 200 bellfousing which i think was mated to a C5....that i hope should bolt up to old c4.
if using 68 converter, is it with ring gear or no

what starter would work then with

The author already has a big bell 200 C4 bell housing.
The bell housing is not the problem.

yes I found the right C4 Large Bellhouse.
- stuck though on ring gear diameter/teeth number,
-whether teeth are on flexplate or on converter
-and what low mount starter would work??

 

[eugenetsmith.gs]

or should I try finding 68 v8 bellhouse and use 68 v8 TC and 68 low mount starter, but what flexplate with ring gear has the 200 small crankshaft bolt pattern?

 

[78_200_C4]

C5 flexplate 164 teeth neutral balance, 2.75" centre bolt pattern.
C5 non-lock up converter to fit the thicker (than C4) C5 bellhousing.

https://cobratransmission.com/Ford-C4-C5-Torque-Converters.

 

[78_200_C4]

1982 Ford Automatic Transmission Bell Housing C4 E1SP-7976-AA 200L6-3.3 Engine

 

[rocklord]

Go onto www.car-part.com and input what you're looking for.
You may find something close to you, or a Recycler willing to ship.

 

[PSIG]

You have some Frankenstein options. Use all your original early 24/24 spline stuff, converter, etc, with the new bell if it is the same depth (same flexplate). So first thing is to measure the two bellhousing depths. Or convert to later 26/24 setup, converter, etc, including the stater and front drum (or whole trans). In-between is using a 26/24 special adapter input shaft to mate early and late parts. Factory shafts will not directly interchange. This is why you would tend to use all of one type or the other when possible. It's confusing, but can be sorted.

I'm surprised his site is still up after so many years, and here for some bellhousing numbers and what they were for: Mmerlinn's C4, C5 Bellhousing Applications

Some are straight-swap, some are only a different starter, and others are a complete change where almost everything behind the engine is different. When hunting swaps, I'll try to get everything from the donor, from the flexplate and back to ensure I have everything for match-up.

The bell removes easily by unbolting from the pump, but use care to keep the pump seated, or it will require reassembly. I stand them up on their output shaft to let gravity help. IIRC, E1SP is 164T C4, and E2SP is 164T deeper converter and bell C5.
edited to correct link

 

[drag-200stang]

PSIG, That link goes to JEGS is that what you wanted?

 

[PSIG]

Thanks! Fixed it.