New Carb

[CrashBob]

Well, I'm at it again. Just got a new Holley/Weber 5200 for my '65 Mustang and have read quite a few opinions, tech articles and so on. I understand that the recommended positioning of the carb is with the fuel bowl facing the front of the car.
I am going to machine my own adapter design so position isn't an issue there. However, with the carb sitting on a mock up positioned with the bowl at the front, the water choke heater fitting interferes with the valve cover, the linkage is in a real difficult to hook up place. In other words, the only advantage to this position is the bowl location.
I don't plan on auto crossing, slalom or road racing. How much negative performance will I expect to experience with the bowl pointed towards the valve cover? With the carb positioned that way, the installation will be MUCH more efficient and neat.
Next question, where do you hook up the electric wire that comes out of the choke? And finally, will a tee in the heater hoses work to run through the choke heater or will it affect the operation of the heater core?

Advise please.

CrashBob, wannabe mechanic

 

[CoupeBoy]

Ditch the water heated choke and find an electric only unit. If your 5200 is like my 32/36 you can get one from a parts store. I just did a quick search and a 1977 MustangII with 2.8 has an electronic choke, but the price is sort of 'spendy' at $34.99, I'd have sworn they were more like $20 last time I checked. Ok, I checked again, one for a 1980 Mustang with 2.3L is closer, but still around $23.99, it might be in your best interest to check out one of these options to remedy your clearance situation and simplify the water hose routing.

-ron

 

[ludwig]

Ditto. You can probably get one at the bone yard for even less. It's just a bimetal with two leads.

 

[jamyers]

Carb mounting: These carbs will work ok with the float bowl sideways, the problem that some people (like me) have is that with hard left-hand turns, the fuel sloshes around and the engine stumbles. My solution was to lower the float height until the stumble went away, iirc about 4-5 mm below the spec.

If you want to mount it with the float forward, the way to do it is with a throttle cable & pedal like on a later Ford. Hit your junkyard.

Chokes: You've got both an electric wire and a water choke, yes? Some H/W carbs came with an electric 'boost' choke heater AND the water fittings. Mine did. I tried it several ways, both electric and water, water only, electric only. Finally got tired and got a real electric choke off of ebay for about $20. It worked pretty well, my only gripe was that its fast idle cam drops out before the engine is really ready (no a big deal actually).

If you want to use the water choke, you need to plumb it so that the coolant flows through the carb on its way to the heater, so a couple of t-fitting would NOT be a good idea - the coolant could bypass the carb. For a neat install, dig through the heater hoses at your parts house, looking for some prebent hoses you can adapt. And be VERY careful with that housing gasket, they're a pain to find (main reason I went to electric).

 

[CrashBob]

Carb mounting: These carbs will work ok with the float bowl sideways, the problem that some people (like me) have is that with hard left-hand turns, the fuel sloshes around and the engine stumbles. My solution was to lower the float height until the stumble went away, iirc about 4-5 mm below the spec.

If you want to mount it with the float forward, the way to do it is with a throttle cable & pedal like on a later Ford. Hit your junkyard.

Chokes: You've got both an electric wire and a water choke, yes? Some H/W carbs came with an electric 'boost' choke heater AND the water fittings. Mine did. I tried it several ways, both electric and water, water only, electric only. Finally got tired and got a real electric choke off of ebay for about $20. It worked pretty well, my only gripe was that its fast idle cam drops out before the engine is really ready (no a big deal actually).

If you want to use the water choke, you need to plumb it so that the coolant flows through the carb on its way to the heater, so a couple of t-fitting would NOT be a good idea - the coolant could bypass the carb. For a neat install, dig through the heater hoses at your parts house, looking for some prebent hoses you can adapt. And be VERY careful with that housing gasket, they're a pain to find (main reason I went to electric).

Thanks for the advise. Where do you hook up the electric lead? I am going to try the water/electric combo.

Craig

 

[mysavioreigns]

This is freakin hilarious. I was going to post the EXACT same question earlier, but I had to run, so I didn't...

So the gray part where (what looks to be) and inlet and outlet, is hitting my valve cover too. How do I remove it? I thought that was part of the electric choke.

So how do I remove the water thing? Is it the big bolt on it?
Here is a pic of mine

I have heard the electric lead hooks up to the STATOR on the alt.

 

[CoupeBoy]

I've been told the back of the alternator. but I used a 12v power that is switched via a relay and the coil wire


-ron

 

[jamyers]

@ Crashbob: I tapped into the 12V wire feeding my distributor. But on a stock ignition it'll only have 5 volts or so, unless you've bypassed the resistor wire like I did.

Anyplace that's switched on/off by the ignition switch will do. I've heard of using one of the alternator terminals, but I don't know which one.

@ mysavioreigns: Yup, that's the water housing for the choke. Loosen that center bolt and you can rotate it, remove the bolt to take the water housing off. Be careful of the tiny gasket though...

If I recall, there's the (1) water housing, (2) choke coil & housing, (3) electric "boost" heating element, and then (4) the carb.

I believe they put the little electric heating element in to start warming up the choke even faster than the coolant, trying to get the emissions-tuned carbs off of their chokes asap. If I recall, that little choke was maybe 80% of what was needed all by itself (w/ out the hot water part).

 

[woodbutcher]

Hi CrashBob.The STATOR terminal on the alternator is the correct hookup for the electric choke.
Leo

 

[MercuryMarc]

I gave up on my 5200 due to the "hard left stumble" with my float leaning over the valve cover. I had a an electric choke attached to the coil. If you change carbs a lot (like I did) then the water choke is very messy but the electric is quite simple to disconnect.

I purchased my electric choke (converted from water) from Electro-Dyn:

http://www.electro-dyn.com/choke1.htm

Good luck!

 

[CrashBob]

This is freakin hilarious. I was going to post the EXACT same question earlier, but I had to run, so I didn't...

So the gray part where (what looks to be) and inlet and outlet, is hitting my valve cover too. How do I remove it? I thought that was part of the electric choke.

So how do I remove the water thing? Is it the big bolt on it?
Here is a pic of mine

I have heard the electric lead hooks up to the STATOR on the alt.

Great minds think alike!

OK, I talked to Tom at Stovebolt about the water inlet on the choke AND the positioning of the fuel bowl. First, Tom has an electric heater for $12 or $13, don't remember exact price but by the time you add shipping it's at least $20 or so.
Next, Tom was adamant about how the fuel bowl must be oriented. TO THE FRONT!
So, being a cheap bastige, engineer by nature and profession, I started scheming on the choke issue.
My old 1 barrel had a strap clamp that held one of the heater hoses to the face of the choke dial.............ah ha! I pulled the strap and choke dial off the old, removed the water housing (bolt and 3 screws) from the new carb and guess what? The old didn't fit the new.
I got to looking at the water housing and realized it was 2 piece, chucked it up in the vise and took the trusty pipe wrench and carefully twisted the water housing off the coil housing (dial). The boss for the bolt protrudes from the face of the dial so I put it up on an angle plate, took it to the bandsaw and whacked it off. A little touch up with the belt sander and fine wire wheel and she looks like factory!
Are you going to make your own adapter? I couldn't help but notice that nice slab of aluminum stock your carb is sitting on. I made a wood mock up and discovered that for everything to clear on the valve cover side, the adapter needs to be 1-1/4" tall minimum. I'm going with 1-3/8" on mine.
When I get it finished, I'll post some pix and if you are going to make your own adapter and would like, I can send a jpeg of my design print.

Geez, this is long winded but I couldn't sleep so I got up at 4:00 am and have been powering coffee and ginger snaps ever since.

Pix at 11

CrashBob, wannabe mechanic, real design engineer and generally crazy old fart

 

[mysavioreigns]

Mine is 1" tall. I mocked it up on the block, and it seemed to work. I did eventually rotate the choke (water) housing around, so it all worked out. I hope....haha