newby in middle of repalcing head gasket has questions

[Anonymous]

Hi folks, this is a great website! I am in the middle of a head gasket job on a 200 in a 66 comet 202 (mileage unknown). It was leaking into #5 and 6. There was a little coolant in #5 cylinder but I am hoping it was caught in time before it got to the bearings.

So I have read the FAQ on heads here but I still have some questions. This is my brother's comet and he does not have a shop manual (he has finally ordered one but that is at least a week away). I used to have a 66 caliente but we sold the shop manual with the car, so I have no tech info.

We are just having the stock head resurfaced. No intent to try to improve performance right now. Just want to get it running. I have noted the info in the faq about compensation shaving for the new aftermarket gasket.

My questions are really basic (I hope).

1. what is the best tool/solvent to clean up the block surface and can I safely use any solvent (brakleen?) to clean the carbon buildup on the pistons.

2. I have a torque sequence of 55,65, 70-75, but is there a bolt order/patten for the head?

3. What is the best way to reinstall the lifters/pushrods? Do they have to be threaded into the block before you put the head on?

4. We are getting the head vacuum tested. Is there anything else worth doing while we are in this deep? There was no valve clatter on this motor.

5. After storage for 9 months it has in rapid succession blown a rad tank (along the seam) and now a head gasket. apart from a new 180 degree thermostat and a good flush, is there anything else we can do to improve cooling? The hoses have their springs inside. The rad is a 3 core.

6. is there a preferred model for a temp gauge, and where do you fit the sender?

thanks

 

[MustangSix]

1. what is the best tool/solvent to clean up the block surface and can I safely use any solvent (brakleen?) to clean the carbon buildup on the pistons.

I would just scrape off what I could, and wire brush the rest. You could use one of those Scotchbrite wheels, but a little discoloration doesn't matter. Brake cleaner works well. Keep the oil return and water passages covered while you are working on the engine. I usually plug all the holes with rags or paper towels.

2. I have a torque sequence of 55,65, 70-75, but is there a bolt order/patten for the head?

Yes, I'll post a picture later, but you work from the center, out. Use assembly lube on the bolts, and chase the holes with a tap to make sure they are clean.

3. What is the best way to reinstall the lifters/pushrods? Do they have to be threaded into the block before you put the head on?

The lifters need to go in before the head goes on. The pushrods go on after the head is installed. The lifters need to go back in the exact same hole they came out of. If you mixed them up, toss them and go buy new ones. Use a good assembly lube on the face. Make sure the ball ends on the pushrods are round. If they have been worn and look oval or pointy, toss them and get new ones. A dab of lube on each end is needed. Do not pump lifters full of oil before installation. A coating of lube is all they need.

4. We are getting the head vacuum tested. Is there anything else worth doing while we are in this deep? There was no valve clatter on this motor.

Do a good valve job, check the guides, and install new seals. Replace all the core plugs while you have it off the engine. If you have the time and skills, a little pocket porting helps a lot.

5. After storage for 9 months it has in rapid succession blown a rad tank (along the seam) and now a head gasket. apart from a new 180 degree thermostat and a good flush, is there anything else we can do to improve cooling? The hoses have their springs inside. The rad is a 3 core.

There may be a significant accumulation of rust sand and crud in the water jackets, especially around the #6 cylinder. Use a stiff rod to poke around and try to blast that stuff out. Removing the core plugs from the side of the block helps. I used ahigh pressure hose inserted into the coolant passages to get a lot of it out.

6. is there a preferred model for a temp gauge, and where do you fit the sender?

The stock sender is on the left rear of the head. there really isn't another good place to add a second temp sender, however, you could put one in the line that feeds the heater located at the front of the head next to the #1 exhaust port. Coolant circulates constantly thru the heater core, so a Tee there might give you a pretty good reading.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks jack, more dumb questions that shoudl confirm for you how superficial my knowledge of motors is:

1. where is the block drain plug? drained the rad but couldn't identify block plug so so far block is still mostly full of coolant so hard to ream out the water passages

2. Sorry, i am misspeaking about pushrods/lifters and about to display how far my ignorance goes. I have not touched the valve assembly. I am talking about the rods that flop down loose when you pull the head. In ym brain they are pushrods and then I wrote lifters, but now I can't remember which. I am going with pushrods. Right?

3. Same sort of dumb question. It sounds like my brother is too cheap to go for a valve job right now. Do we need to remove the valves to replace the head or can we just fit the pushrods in?

 

[MustangSix]

1. where is the block drain plug? drained the rad but couldn't identify block plug so so far block is still mostly full of coolant so hard to ream out the water passages
There is no drain. To get all the water out, you have to either turn the engine upside down or knock out the core plugs (freeze plugs).

2. Sorry, i am misspeaking about pushrods/lifters and about to display how far my ignorance goes. I have not touched the valve assembly. I am talking about the rods that flop down loose when you pull the head. In ym brain they are pushrods and then I wrote lifters, but now I can't remember which. I am going with pushrods. Right?
Those are pushrods.

3. Same sort of dumb question. It sounds like my brother is too cheap to go for a valve job right now. Do we need to remove the valves to replace the head or can we just fit the pushrods in?
Once the head is in place, the pushrods just drop in. Then the rockers are bolted down.

Skipping a valve job while the head is off is false economy. It could mean the difference between an engine that goes tens of thousands more miles or ten miles. How will you ensure that your head gasket failure was not related to a warped head or vice versa?

I also recommend you either hit the library or spend $15 on a chiltons to get some pictures and instructions. Or you need to find an experienced person to help. No offense, but if this is the level of expertise you have, you are really going to be up against it when it comes time to reassemble and tune and as much as we'd love to help you, a long distance diagnosis is not always the best way to go.

Keep asking questions; we're here to help.

 

[Anonymous]

jack, fair comment about lack of experitise, but AFAIK Chiltons does not have a manual for a ford six or a 66 comet, and if it does, nobody local stocks it or has access to it or any other shop manual for this motor/vehicle. As I think I mentioned before, a reprint shop manual is on order and a week away but unfortunately the head is bad now and my brother needs the car. I have gone to great lengths to get a shop manual before showing up as a newby on websites asking dumb questions. sadly, I struck out. As you have no doubt guessed, this is my first time inside an engine since I helped a guy do a head gasket on a 50's era jaguar 20 years ago. However, I have done a few things to vehicles over the years and so I saw this as a natural progression.

I am also helping my brother do this so I do not have the last call on the work that gets done. He took the head to a machine shop to be resurfaced. They reported it was not warped and that the valves passed a vacuum test and are "fine". He does not want to do a valve job or replace any parts as he is toying with the idea of going to a V8. Given the unknown mileage of the motor, he may have a point about not fixing up the top when he does not know the state of the bottom and is worried about whether coolant got into the bearings since the h/g problem was pretty bad. However, having read this site, I will be trying to talk him into upgrading the 200 instead of switching blocks, since it looks like he can get plenty of power out of the 6. If he does this, I imagine he will be pulling the block and starting over, probably with a little more time to work on it and maybe some help from this board .

Anyway, thanks very much for your help and wish me luck tonight. You sound like you know what you are doing with these motors. My expertise is not motors, but I have seen people who are in over their heads but don't knwo it before and so if I am one, I apologize for wasting your time.

 

[MustangSix]

No apologies needed and not a waste of time.

Over the years I've seen a lot of kids and adults alike tear into their cars without any help or manuals to guide them. They get lost, frustrated, and ultimately end up with cars that run poorly. I just wanted to be sure that you had the help you needed and that the project finished well.

Ask away, we're all here to help you finish this project.

 

[addo]

Two small things to add:

I allow a long relax time between headbolt torque stages. Overnight if possible between the last two. Bare minimum 20 minutes (oddly enough, about the time for a cup of coffee ).

If the pushrods got mixed up, a dab of assembly lube on each end is in my preferences. You'll need to adjust the lash as they re-bed, and this is extra insurance on the deal going smoothly.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

yup, we screwed up because we did not have a manual. Got the head on alright but then foolishly used the head torque specs on the rocker and sheered a bolt. Head is going back to machine shop today to get the rest of the bolt out. Seeing as how we fully torqued the head gasket, do we need another one now or can we get away with reusing it?

Probably just as well as when I got a look at the head in better light I could see the valve seals were all shredded. We don't have the tools to pull the valves so we may get the shop to replace the seals now. one question, if we do pull the valves, I assume that means we have to do a valve adjustment once we put the head back on. I do not know how to do that at all and we still do not have a manual. Can we run the vehicle without the adjustment long enough to get it a few blocks to a repair shop for them to do it? Or, can anyone suggest a where I could find out how to do this task and what tools are required?

yes, I know we are digging ourselves in deeper

 

[MustangSix]

I have reused gaskets like that which I used for mockups and haven't had a problem, but I could just be lucky. For the price of a gasket, I think I would not take the chance.

They can easily replace the seals without valve removal and there should be no change to your vavle adjustment. All that comes off are the keepers, retainers and springs, then it all goes right back on. Valves stay in place.

On 200's equipped with hydraulic lifters (which you should have), there really is no valve adjustment. You simply bolt the rocker stand down and that's it. The dimensions of all the valvetrain parts are sized to give a range of acceptable preload, so you should be good to go as long as there is no excessive wear on the lifters or pushrods.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks Jack,

I forgot to mention that this motor may have a short lifespan anyway. Everytime we rotate the crank a full cycle numerous small dots of coolant appear on the cylinder wall of #5 so there is clearly contamination either in the piston wall or below. We did ream out the water jacket and there appeared to be no gunk in there. funnily enough, the oil we drained looks uncontaminated.

 

[Anonymous]

howdy folks, especially Jack. Well, thanks to the help we received, we got the head on and everything put back together properly and she runs great. It laid a big patch of thick carbon on the asphalt when it restarted that won't come off, and the valves clattered pretty good for the first 4 or 5 minutes, but otherwise all looks good.

We will be changing the oil a couple of times this week to try to get rid of any remainign coolant in the block, and flushing the cooling system too.

thanks again to all and, once again, great site. Next item is to find some brakes for this thing.