Now that I know what my engine is, how to get some extra GO?

[Anonymous]

I now know that my block is a -69 Ford 250. The head is a -69 200.

I´ve started thinking about getting some extra hp out of the engine, so I need your assistance again. 8)

My aim is to get somewhere between 160 and 200 honest horsepower at the flywheel. From what I´ve read, this should be easily obtained with stuff from for instance Clifford Performance.

Since the engine in my car runs just fine, and there is no scary noises coming from it either at high revs or idleing I was thinking that I may not need to do anything to the block, or it´s contents.

Instead, I would get an enginebuilder to work his magic on a 250 head (remember, the one I have now is a 200), use a hotter cam, get some headers and have him replace the carb with a 2-bbl unit. This way, after he is done he can ship me the head and the other parts, and I could take off my old head and put the new one on. I could probaly have the heads and the other parts swapped in a weekend with some help from my more mechanically inclinded friends.

How does this plan strike you? Would my goal of 160-200hp be within reach? I wouldn´t mind even more power, but this is going to be my daily ride during summer, so I need it to be reliable and driveable and also reasonably economical in everyday traffic.

Don´t hold back out of politeness, I´m pretty dumb when it comes to engines but I also accept that so this is a learning experience for me.

Anders Olsson

 

[Anonymous]

Get a OZ head http://www.fordsixparts.com/

 

[Anonymous]

I will be looking into that. Though, with me living in Sweden, there´s little chance of finding anyone experienced in working with them, plus it will probably cost a lot to get one over here.

From what I´ve read, it seems as if my goals should be achievable with a 250 head and stuff from Clifford Performance, which is all available here.

Thanks for the suggestion though, I will take it into consideration.

Anders Olsson

 

[Anonymous]

You might be able to find a couple of ideas on my website!

http://www.geocities.com/mustang_man_1966/index.html

Later,

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

Yup Doug, that was definitely an interesting site you´ve got there! I´ll have to take a more thourough look tomorrow, it´s almost 2 in the morning here, and I need to get some sleep!

So anyway, what do you think, with a professional enginebuilder doing a bit of work on a 250 head, hotter cam, larger 1 or 2bbl carb and headers, would I see the kind of power I´m looking for (160-200 flywheel hp), or am I asking too much?

Anders Olsson

 

[Anonymous]

Add a 264 or 270 cam, direct mount a holley 2 bbl and port & polish head, add a header and update the ignition and I think you are looking at a easy 175-180 hp engine!

Dont know that much about 250's though....I'm more into the 200's!

Theres also some trick about swapping pistons to raise the compression but I dont remember which piston you swap to. Hopefully one of the 250 guys can tell you about that!

Later,

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

...I think you are looking at a easy 175-180 hp engine!

Hmm, that´s very good news indeed.

I´m hoping to keep the block, with all its parts untouched for now at least. I´ve contacted an enginebuilder about doing the work on the head and getting the carb, headers, cam and soforth. Might seem like I´m cheating a bit, but the engine works just fine, and I´m not looking to race the car. My philosophy is "if it ain´t broke, don´t fix it".

I´d be happy to reach 160hp on the flywheel. Anything more than that is a bounus.

Anders Olsson

 

[xctasy]

160 hp (or PS) at the rear wheels is 202 hp net at the flywheel with a manual, and 213 hp net is needed if its auto.

Since a lot of your bigger American cars end up on propane, you could just use the 500 Holley conversion Mustang Geezer has on his website, and then try the adaptor I made for my 1984 Austrailian Falcon (see below on my profile, click, and look).

The carb I have there (CA 300 A5, rated 432 cfm) is able to give 280 hp, although the engine only has airflow for 206 hp with the head and cam the way it was. Most Impco CA 300 carbs give 216 hp (Series A1, rated 348 cfm).

The best bet is to get three Impco CA 125 carbs, which give about 126 hp each, and buy the Clifford Triple carb adaptor. Do that, and put it on propane with just one Impco L or E-series convertor.


If you want to stay petrol, well, I'd go 3 carb Clifford.

You Swedes are Yank car nuts. My friend Hendrick Mortenson said that any thing like an American car is the ultimate in Ice Cool!

 

[Anonymous]

160 hp (or PS) at the rear wheels is 202 hp net at the flywheel with a manual, and 213 hp net is needed if its auto.

Yup, but I´m only looking for 160 (or so) at the flywheel.

Since a lot of your bigger American cars end up on propane, you could just use the 500 Holley conversion Mustang Geezer has on his website, and then try the adaptor I made for my 1984 Austrailian Falcon (see below on my profile, click, and look).

The carb I have there (CA 300 A5, rated 432 cfm) is able to give 280 hp, although the engine only has airflow for 206 hp with the head and cam the way it was. Most Impco CA 300 carbs give 216 hp (Series A1, rated 348 cfm).

The best bet is to get three Impco CA 125 carbs, which give about 126 hp each, and buy the Clifford Triple carb adaptor. Do that, and put it on propane with just one Impco L or E-series convertor.


If you want to stay petrol, well, I'd go 3 carb Clifford.

Definitely staying with petrol, as I said, this is going to be my daily driver for the summer months. I won´t be racing it, and I´m only looking to up the hp somewhat to make it a little bit more fun to drive. I think I´ll try to stay with a single 1 or 2bbl carb, for the ease of operation. Or are you saying that this won´t be sufficient for me to reach my goal for 160hp at the flywheel?

You Swedes are Yank car nuts. My friend Hendrick Mortenson said that any thing like an American car is the ultimate in Ice Cool!

Yes, there´s a HUGE interest for Vintage cars of any make in Sweden. And US cars makes up the biggest portion of it. It´s a great hobby!

Anders Olsson

 

[addo]

Time to go out on a limb.

Would there be cars in the junkyards with smaller motors (like 2l) with turbos you could use? Twin turbo would be different and should go pretty well.

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

That is a possibility, but probably not for me. There definitely are donor-cars available in the scrapyards, even though parts in useable condition are often expensive.

There are a couple of problems though with this aproach:
- First, if I had an enginebuilder install a Turbo, then I´m pretty sure the installation would cost a lot more than what I have been planning for.
Add to this that I don´have the skill, tools or time to do much (any) of the work myself.
-Secondly, if I install a Turbo in the car, it will have pass a new inspection, with whatever upgrades the inspector deems neccessary. It wouldn´t surprise me if they demanded I upgrade the suspension and brakes to V8 specs!

On the other hand, if I just upgrade the engine with internal stuff according to my plan, there´s no need for me to pass a new inspection.
This is the way I would like to go.

So going turbocharged is not an option for me. But still, thanks for the suggestion!

Anders Olsson

 

[MustangSix]

The 250 really needs better exhaust and a bigger cam. It really wakes up with porting, headers, and a260 degree cam. Mine ran extremely well with just that and a Duraspark. I think I was getting atl least 160 HP from that engine.

 

[simon]

Jack - how did the 260 camshaft affect your 250´s low end torque?

what carb did you run, was it altered in any form?

the long stroke 250 doesn´t appear to be a quick and high reving engine, so I´m really curious.

regards, Simon

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Swede:

Best wishes on your project.

Know that two of the performance shortcoming of a 250 are in the short block. 1st a rather mediocre 1.5" rod length to stroke ratio, and 2nd, a combustion quality killing .150" deck height, the distance from the top of the piston to the deck of the block. Without rebuilding the block and some part swapping these two issues cannot be addressed.

But the good news is that you can achieve you goal. That is mostly bolt-ons and head work. You should plan to take advantage of the 250s strength- that being low end torque.

The '69-"M" head would benefit from hardened valve seat inserts, larger 1.75" intake valves, a three angle valve job with back cutting on the intake valves, with mild smoothing and porting, an exhaust port divider installed in the head.

You could bolt on a Carter RBS one barrel for a slight improvement over your YF, but given your intended use and goal, you would do well to modify the intake log (this is another performance limiter on these engines) to accept a Holley, wide base two barrel with an electric choke. I'd opt for the 500 cfm. With careful tuning, it would give good driving quality and fair economy.

You will need to do some careful measuring of CCs, but know that you should limit compression to about 9:1, and do some careful camphering and polishing in the combustion chamber, to help minimize pre-ignition. Head gaskets, their compressed thickness, are an important part of this issue. Just going from the stock shim type head gasket to an aftermarket composite type will make a .025" difference, that you will need to compenate for you milling.

In the cam department, I'd stay closer to a 260 degree duration, which will help to maintain low end power and still give you a kick-in-the-pants above 3,000 rpms. While changing the cam be sure to install new lifters and timing chain and gears. Also check your engine damper for correctness. Yu might also want to invest in a set of adjustible rocker arm and corresponding push rods to easy and aid tuning.

Add a DuraSpark II electronic ignition for set-and-forget operation, Headers and a good exhaust system.

This will give you a combination that will be a reliable joy to own and drive.

Adois, David

 

[Anonymous]

Jack, thanks! That´s exactly what I wanted to hear!

David, I´ll compare what you´ve suggested with the estimate and details I get from the enginebuilder I´ve contacted. He has a good reputation (in Sweden) for building engines, so I expect him to come up with a fairly similar setup, since I´ve given him the same specs.
If he comes up with something too far off, I´ll return here for a "verdict" on his suggested setup.

Thanks to all of you who have participated in this thread. You´ve really given me a lot to think about and provided a lot of help.

Anders Olsson