Offy 3x1, webers, Duraspark

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I just forked over the cash for three weber 34ich carbs. Can anyone tell me if there is anything different about these than the instructions for setting up the offy 3x1 for holleys.


1. The instructions call for some modifications to the outer carbs- changing the accelerator pump settings, disabling the chokes, installing return springs- is there anything different on the webers?

2. How about some tuning and jet sizing tips for a 200 I6

3. The instructions say you can't run the stock distributer, but is there a vacum source that is compatible with my Duraspark II?

4. Where does the PCV go now that I won't have the port at the carb adapter plate?
 
Don't know about your items 1 & 2, but the Duraspark will run on either throttle port or manifold vacuum.

Using throttle port vacuum gives the best power under half-to-full throttle conditions. It also starts better, especially on cold days.

Using manifold vacuum gives better gas mileage until you reach about 2/3 throttle, then there is less power available than with port vacuum.

Manifold vac lets an engine run cooler in daily-driving stop & go.
It also reduces carb icing in winter conditions.

If you will have low manifold vac because of a wide-overlap cam or heavy foot, use throttle port vacuum.

If you can find one, get the "yellow grommet" Duraspark from a late-70s T-Bird, Cougar or LTD with the 351W engine. Get the little vacuum diaphragm, too, that connects to the 'extra' 2-pin connector. This system connects similarly to the regular Duraspark, but has an extra feature that's good for extra power or MPG, depending on how you connect it up.

If you run manifold vacuum to the little diaphragm, it gives an extra 4 degrees spark advance while the throttle is less than 2/3 open. This cools the engine and gives better MPG. It drops out when you stomp on it, so there's less knock. Hook it up this way with a long hose (about 5 feet length) so that it will not try to add the advance during starting (this is how Ford used it).

If you hook it up to throttle port vac, it kicks in an extra 4 degrees of advance when you stomp on it (i.e., the opposite of before). This gives extra power under full-throttle conditions without having lots of static advance, which can be hard to start. Hook it up this way with as short a hose as is practical for faster response.

Some diaphragms have 1 hose connection (absolute type) and some have 2 (California 'relative pressure' type).

If the diaphragm you get has 2 hoses on it, connect one side to manifold and the other side to throttle port. With an ohmmeter, check the switch contacts when the engine is idling, then snap the throttle to see if it changes from OPEN to CLOSED (or vice-versa). If it's OFF (open) at idle, then closes (ON) under high throttle vac conditions, it's connected correctly for higher power. Reverse this for better MPG.
 
thanks for the detailed answer, actually it should probably be posted under a different heading since that is the most info I've ever heard about Duraspark II hook-up on this forum. As for me I already have a DurasparkII and MSD-6A I just want to know if the Weber ich has a port for an appropriate vacum hook-up to the Duraspark II.
 
Personal question: where did you get the Webers and (roughly) how much did you pay? I am interested in doing the same upgrades to my 200 but the costs of the carbs scare me. If you have a low cost source for the carbs can you share that?

Thanks.
 
What year head are you using? I had a pulg that is right under the center carb on my head. I was able to unscrew it and find a new connector that screwed right into the hole to use for the PVC valve.

Bill
 
I bought them at Carbs Unlimited online, around $150 each. . . which is steep to me too, but I looked at autolites at Pony Carbs and they were a lot more with the core charge and all.

Bill, that port in the side of the log is currently attached to my c-4 transmission.

How about the other questions?
 
I am sorry I can't give you an answer on the vacuum, I went with a mechanical advance Mallory Unilite to avaid the same problems you are having now. The Mallory has worked out real qell so far.

So that port int he log goes to your C4, hmm I kind of wondered what it was for, I guess now I know, smile. Other than tapping another hole for the PVC I ould have to think for a while on what to do.

I took all the choke hardware off my outher two carbs, and did not even bother with the return springs that came wiht the Offy kit, those 2 large V shaped ones. Since my Mustang is a 3rd car and I don't drive it during the winter, I have not hooked up a choke at all on it. The return springs on teh Webers should do the trick by themselves for the outer 2 carbs, just make sure you set the slide things up correctly.

Bill
 
I finally got my hands on a weber 34ICH. There is a vacum port at the base of the carb which nobody seems to mention. Why not use that to run a duraspark vacuum advance? Has anyone done it?

Also what about tuning, and synching carbs this is my first multi-carb set up.
 
Hi praisethelowered,

If the carb port is vented into the carb above the throttle plate it is a "ported" vac source. Below the throttle plate it a "manifold" vac source. I suspect it to be a "port" source as most carb vents are. What source was your dizzy hooked to pre-triple. Use the same source and you won't have to re-engineer the DII. Personally, I like a mechanical only set-up. I have converted my dizzy to mechanical. However, if you use the primary carb. for your ported source it should perform fine. If you need a manifold source you can "T" the trans line.

Carb tuning. While I do not have direct experience with the Offy on the 200 engine, I have a good deal of experience with multiple carbs set-ups. So my comments, while generic, will get you where you need to go. Fine tuning over time will be different with each car (cam, compression, condition, etc), so I am confident my generic comments will be useful. There are two challenges to initial set-up, idle and outer carb sync.

Idle first. The Offy set up idles on the center carb. However, the idle circuits on the outer carbs will be active, i.e., not closed. The best way to set up the system, initially, is to block off the outer carb attach flanges and tune the car to run on the center carb, only. Idle mixture, speed and timing. Note the number of turns out from the stop the idle jet setting is when done. When setting for idle with the outer carbs installed, because there will be additional air flow, you can't shut the outer carb idle circuit all the way off or the idle will be lean. However, you don't want them open to the level of the center carb, as this will be rich. So open them half way (1/2 the turns of the center carb) as a starter. Without hooking up the outer carb linkage, start the engine. It may idle quite well. However, minor adjustment to each outer carb, back an forth, could be necessary. Tune for smooth idle. Don't re-adjust the center carb during this process, and be sure the outer carb idle speed screws (throttle screws) are off, i.e., not open. These carbs should not be active at idle. The "system" is progressive.

Off idle. Because the outer carbs come in after, or behind the center carb, idle sync is a moot point. So the typical sync tool is of little value. The key is to have them open at the same rate. By full throttle all three carbs should be full open. Between idle and open the outer carbs need to be flowing equally, but this is not a critical issue, i.e., close is OK. The easiest way the set up a progressive system of this type (mechanical progressive) is the adjust the system to WOT. So, open the center carb to full throttle (engine off of course) and then adjust the outers to WOT at the carb. You will need to block the kinkage full open to accomplish this process. This done, since the system is progressive, the opening rate of the outer carbs will be equal, not withstand slop in the linkage. The next step will be to adjust the initial opening point. There are many variables here. Mileage vs. power, etc. Personally, I would set them up be begin opening at the point the center carb is 1/4 open. Live with the car and adjust from there. Be sure to double check WOT actually happens in the outer carbs when you're done with the initial set-up.

Jetting. Can't be of much help here. Main circuit settings will not impact the idle set-up. The main jets will probably need to be one or two sizes smaller in the outer carbs. My educated guess is that since these carbs are designed / set-up for a smaller engine, the fact that you are using three may work in your favor. Ignition ping, running temp and plug condition will have to guide this process, over time, but I would start with what you have.

Don't let this process frustrate you. It is fun, challenging, and will be rewarding when you're finished. It could take weeks to sort out jetting unless someone using these carbs on a 200 with the same configuration can make a recommendation.

Enjoy the trip - Steve
 
Damn Steve, unbelievable post. Thanks for your time. That will certainly help me and I hope it helps others.


The vacum "port" that I refered to is actually below the throttle blade so it's manifold vacum. My current set up- weber 38dges and Duraspark- runs the dizzy off of manifold vacum so it should be the same. We'll see.
 
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