Propane Conversion

jwhoss76

Famous Member
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Anyone seen the June 2004 issue of Four Wheeler? On page 38 they have an article discussing an new Propane Conversion kit on the market. It is designed for carbureted vehicles and is an easy swap. The article is VERY interesting and makes you think. After all Propane is much cheaper than premium gasoline :hmmm:
They listed the website for the company who makes the conversion, it's www.techno carb.com
It's very interesting and for the EFI set....
Technocarb offer EPA Compliant systems for a variety of 1998 through 2001 Ford, GM, and Chrysler vehicles

It's got me thinking, what about you?
 
I am biased towards Liquid Propane Gas (LPG) ever since Jay Storer and Ak Miller started grabbing Impco carbs and turbos, and whacked them on 300's, 302's, 255's, 351's, 200's, 250's and 2.3 Limas and 2.0 Pintos. The 1984 book Propane Conversions by J. Storer shows me time and time again that you guys in the States have forgotten more than I'll ever know about Propane. You must read that book. It is written with the passion of a sold out fanatic, with the depth of a scientist, and the practicality of a stone mason.

It's a classic, and if it doesn't make you a gas addicted Rock Gas Addicted Nut, then I'm a zombie!

Since the petrochemical companies were forced to turn away from leaded hi-tests in the early 1970's, they have been turning there crude into oxygenated fuels. The refineries have quite a job getting the right blends to meet consumer demand. To a large extent, they can control demand by pricing, but no-one is ever stupid enough to underprice Propane, as it couls force a total change in the refinery design. Since the price of gas governs if people want to go propane, its easier for America to source one kind of fuel. Same with diesel. Producing lots of deisel forces refineries to run a diferent game palne, and that results in plant changes beein needed at huge cost.

Regarding just propane, America is in a different situation to other countries who have off-shore oil reserves which have very high proportions of rock gas, which is then sold at 2/3 rds the cost of 87MON.

In NZ and Australia, the LP gas is very cheap. In America, it varies a great deal.

There is another item on the horizon. Methane. Municipal landfills can make heaps of this, and Daimler Chrysler are on the cutting edge of making Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) and Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) powered cars. In some areas, a LNG car could be a very good proposition.

Just for your viewing pleasure, look at these items.

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http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=71077169-7c04-752b-1111-2e9f437c766a&size=]<<< twin carb manifold for my 200 cube x-flow project

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=64ac6576-6a0f-5349-14bb-25e93ae260b1&size=<<< twin carb manifold for my 200 cube x-flow project, which may end up using twin propane carbs.
 
A large reason propane is much cheaper is the fact that it contains much less energy. It takes more moles of it to get as far as a mole of gasoline would get you.

There is no vast oil company conspirracy driving gas prices up at the pump. I don't know about ya'll, but new cars cost 3 to 4 times what they did 25 years ago. Gasoline is up about 50%. There have been no new refineries built here in the past 25 years. When is the last time you saw a new nuclear electric plant built in the states. The reason is that it requires billions of dollars of cash outlay and years of planning and construction. The whole thing may be jeopardized or shut down at any point during construction because of some new environmental review. Who would risk their money and that of their stockholders building something that may never get commissioned? It is easier to just import the energy you need.

Enough of my soapbox. In the 70's, propane conversions were common for pickups. Propane was more competitive because natural gas prices were deflated relative to the oil prices.
 
OOPS! The website is www.technocarb.com

Very cool but isn't LPG is a byproduct of refining CNG and Gasoline?? That's what they told me many moons ago in physics class. :? Also LPG is easier to find in my area than CNG OR LNG, well, at fuel depots that is.
 
Natural gas is mixture of several gaseous components. Propane and other components are stripped from the methane gas which is typically sent down the pipelines to households etc. The liquids are then fractionated into the components. Gasoline and propane are both derived from both natural gas and crude oil. Crude oil is cracked and fractionated to increase the yield of a specific component. LNG is not very common in the states, because we have extensive pipeline to distribute compressed natural gas. You'll see more LNG in countries that do not have either the infrastructure that we have or in countries that must import their natural gas. In the absesene of pipelines, for transporting in bulk the gas is liquified via compression and refigeration.
 
The last LPG I bought for heating was U. S. $1.79 per gallon. Heating fuels are exempt from highway tax's. Now 42% of our gasoline price is highway use tax's of one form or another, add thet to LPG and the savings goes out the window.
 
:lol: @ 3pennyford sounds like I'm not the only one that has to drive to the mailbox or use a 4x4 to get up the driveway in the winter.I'll take pictures of the drive sometime.
 
y the way I was refering to your location there.Blasted lack of edit feature on here.
 
grease_monkey_1966 wrote
@ 3pennyford sounds like I'm not the only one that has to drive to the mailbox or use a 4x4 to get up the driveway in the winter.I'll take pictures of the drive sometime.

It is up hill both ways and when it snows since we don't have 4x4 we stay put untill it melts. Fortunatly here thet only happened three times last winter.
And the mail box is at the iron bridge. It is walkable if you'er not stove up like I am. Between a 1/4 and a 1/2 mile depending if you measur up and down or stright across. Mit the creek running down the middle most of the time. sure keeps unwanted company out.
And we found thet the mile long hill mit seven turns in it between here and town is a good barrier too, the wife was told in town last winter by some folks thet they didn't see why anybody could live beyound Butler Hill. (to my way of thinking it ain't even steep, just got lots of turns.)
 
*** "Conspiracy" *** Heck, no; the very word connotes a 'secret' of sorts. There's no secret to fuel pricing, unless you've got your head in the sand. Remember the centuries-old principle of getting "whatever the traffic will bear"; it applies here.

For the record, in SoCal, mid-1973 gasoline prices ranged from low 20-some cents to mid 30-some cents per gallon, fed & state taxes included. Then by mid-1974 they had jumped to 40-50-some cents per gallon(oddly, diesel prices weren't much affected!). In the late-77 to mid-78 price push, the gasoline prices bumped to over $1.00/gallon, all taxes included. This time diesel jumped up to high 40s to 50-some cents/gallon, spurred on by the barrage of GM's marketing[what they do best, IMHO!] of its Olds 350 diesel-powered abominations to price-conscious motorists.

Part of the problem is as stated before that other cost areas are up 4-5 times[and, yes, gasoline is too; diesel is retailing at 10-11 times what it did in 1973!]. But workers' income largely has not come close to keeping pace. Example: in 1973, the (unionized)grocery clerks here made 1/2 (raw dollars) of what they do today. Retail food prices are up 5-15 times, new vehicle prices are up 4-5 times, and housing is up 8-10 times. Worse still, many millions of jobs don't even exist here in the U.S., or are in fields completely dominated by folks who feel compelled to work 'under-the-table' for less than $5.00 per hour, with few legal remedies. (And, please don't tell me that the single-family farmers are getting rich, squeezing the big supermarket chains for huge wholesale produce price increases). CEOs of large corporations, as a group, have done very well over the same time period. Road taxes on fuel are up a little; profits are WAY up.

Okay... off the soapbox, for this old man. For the government-published figures of retail fuel prices around the country, check out

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

Interesting how prices vary, regardless of the excuses given. I mean, c'mon, how do MA & NY (not many oil wells & refineries, are there?)fuel prices run so much less there than California, where we have lots of wells & refineries? Answer: "whatever the traffic will bear!" [Even the website address is interesting: "tonto" means 'stupid' in some Spanish slang!]

Media stories frequently remind us that western European countries frequently have retail gasoline prices in the $4.00-$6.00 range. What is not stated is that the majority of the pricing differential(relative to US) is tax used to build/run/maintain the commuter transit systems, so that most common folk can get around without their personal vehicles much of the time. That doesn't much help folks who have to run a farm truck, but diesel is at least LESS pricey than gasoline there because it costs a lot less to refine than gasoline. Damn! Jumped up on that soapbox again.

Just my 2 cents... musta been worth dang near nuthin' back in 1973!

J.R.
 
J.R.":3f5epiet said:
Remember the centuries-old principle of getting "whatever the traffic will bear"; it applies here.

What would be the incentive for charging less? The whole idea of being in business is to make a profit so that you can continue to grow and operate.
 
THIS WAS SEEN ON CNBC


.....PROFIT PER BARREL OF OIL.

.......EAST COAST....$5.88

......SOUTH EAST.....$6.10

.....WEST COAST....$17.88

.....THE PROFIT FROM THESE INCERASES BY THE LARGE OIL CO. WAS UP MORE THAN 6 TIMES. WHILE THE INCREASES HAVE ONLY GONE UP 50%. THAT IS WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING. IT'S NOT FROM $26.00 A BARREL TO $156.00....... IT'S FROM $26.00 TO $40.00 A BARREL.

.....TAKE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE MONEY OFF OF OIL (PEOPLE WHO CONTROL BY PAPER AT THERE DESK) AND WE WOULD NOT SEE PRICES JUMP EVERY TIME YOU HERE OF A SPILL. THIS IS A HIGHLY CONTROLED COMOD'Y THAT CAN'T BE STOPPED.

.....I PAY AT THE PUMP..... AND I STOP AT $20.00 NO MATTER HOW LITTLE I GET. THAT WAY I WILL HAVE TO COME BACK MORE OFTON. THIS MAKES ME DRIVE MUCH LESS. IT MY WAY OF HELPING THOSE OF YOU WHO NEED TO DRIVE TO GET TO WORK. I ONLY FILL UP WHEN I WILL USE IT ALL IN ONE DAY.

.....J.R. YOU STARTED THIS. I'LL STEP DOWN NOW. THANK YOU FOR READING.

LIVE IN GRACE

LEROY POLL
 
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