Rear sump 250 oil pan

[62Ranchero200]

Greetings Ford Six Fans,

I'm considering installation of a front end suspension kit on my Ranchero. Looking at both strut and Mustang II types, but learning towards Mustang II type to completely eliminate the shock towers.

All of these kits require some type of crossmember towards the front of the engine bay, which won't work with my 250's current front sump oil pan. Was there ever an application for a rear sump 250 oil pan?

If not, I'd be looking at having a custom oil pan made, or give up on the front suspension kits that use a crossmember. Of course, there are still many suspension upgrades that I could so, but they wouldn't eliminate the shock towers, which I would very much like to do.

Thanks
Bob the Builder

 

[bubba22349]

HI Bob, to my knowledge Ford didn't make any 250's with a rear sump oil pan. However severial people doing 250 six swaps (and some 300 six swaps) have made their own rear sump oil pans for use in the Fox chassis Fords by using the 250 pan flange and grafting on a 200 rear sump. I built a rear sump oil pan back in 1969 for my 427 SOHC drag car using a front sump pan flange and then fabricating a rear sump and internal baffling.

The Mustang II based kits are quite nice and offer a clean looking engine compartment and excellent handing. There is also a kit made for the Falcons and Comets chassis to shave away most of the spring tower for more engine room (see below picture links). If you also wented to do a custom install using a smaller diameter coil over shock / spring combo in place of the stock size coil springs you could maybe remove most if not all the rest of tower inside the engine compartment. Best of luck

Crites Performace Parts Installed Falcon / Comet Spring Tower Kit Pictures
https://critesperformanceparts.com/view ... tower4.jpg
https://critesperformanceparts.com/view ... tower2.jpg

The Falcon / Comet Spring Tower Mod Kit Insructions are at the Bottom of the Page
https://critesperformanceparts.com/mobi ... enumber=12

 

[chad]

"...an application for a rear sump 250 oil pan?..."
"No" but some 'split' ('80s steer link went thru there ona i6). I mean a lill frnt AND rear sump. Most were 'front'.

The bronk guys (me - a` la '66 -'77) put the 250 in w/use of the 250 'ring' (top bolt flange only) and a brazed on 170's 3/4 (rear sump the bronks came w/in an i6 rendition or 'the pan' w/everything but the top bolt ring). There's a lil 1 inch transition U need to futz w/a lill there but no big deal. U can usea extra metal strip or just fanagle...typical ol car rest0mod.

 

[xctasy]

Search magnifying glass, user fast64ranchero, partital match xctasy 250 sump.


For more Pictures. Look at Lavron and the Falcon nest.


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78629&p=608990&hilit=250+sump#p608990

 

[62Ranchero200]

I see now that there is no rear sump 250 oil pan available, and making one would not be a quick or easy project.

Have a friend that welds, and I’m sure that working together, we could eventually come up with a rear sump pan. I don’t know what material the oil pump pickup tube is made of (mild steel?), and how to extend it (welding?), and if it still works as reliably if extended by 8” or more.

Wonder what the guys with the strong 250s (Does10s, GeneFiore, Powerband, apologies for any I left out) did for front suspension if they didn’t make a rear sump pan? All the modern suspension kits, whether strut or MII, require a front crossmember. Of course, there are tubular control arms and coil overs you can get for the stock attachment points.

Thanks
Bob

 

[powerband]

..needed slightly modified front suspension and steering gear for tthe 250 in the '61 Comet. '61 initially used the 'flipped' center link and re bored Pitmans' for clearance of oil pan (kudos' to the Scheldahl bros' (sp?)). Currently has swapped '71 Maverick spindls and 1965 Falcon type V8 steering gear. The 'belly bar' strut between engine mounts under pan wouldn't fit until I simply tilted it somewhat with spacers under the three triangld' fasteners.

Flipped' 61 gear





V8 has lower center link on Pitman and idler.



Have fun

 

[chad]

"...pump pickup tube..."
I useda couple 1 sliding inside the other for strength'n a brazed spot as "glue". A
pic above shows a house plumbing (fixture) straight joint. The back half (tube'n screen)
was the late model (200 I think) as it hada tab that bolts up toa cap for support. The frnt
1/2 was a 250 so it fit the oil pump.

"...did for front suspension if ..."
I can't speak for others. My rig hasa cross brace in frnt of the motor. Using a triple HB meant close tolerances there. Many havea rack and pinion steering modded in at that location (or close). Some put in all sorta stuff (K member, upper/lower control arm, coil overs) but no need for the 250. The rails go back and 'towers' sit for the motor (triangles for bent8, "L"s for the six). Joined there by the motor mounts. Next isa movable cross member (behind engine) - holds transmis/transfer case (but it's a 4WD). The bronk, like the others of that era took 3 different motors (the '80s took 4 - an i4, i6, bent6 and bent8). The only difference was w/the i6 due to being so long, other 3 used same "K".

"...would not be a quick or easy project..."
I object ur honor. The pan mod may be the quickest/easiest prt esp if doing some (not needed) of the above... I needed a "motor in/motor out to ck" the mounts'n towers for correctness (darn '60s/70s low hood fords). Ck uTube for some great tutorials on cutting out inner fenders/shocks and K member mod, upper/lower control arm, coil overs, etc. One I saw - the guy sold the whole kit (3 or 4 link rear as well) and showed how to insta it all ! We hada guy here made his Ranch into a lill SCCA cone dodger (lowered, frame stiffeners, R&P steering, fender extensions for track tires, etc). I was very jelious (WoW ) of what he did - ck our search function?

 

[drag-200stang]

I remember some hot rod installs, they would weld a tube in the oil pan to run the link through after the engine was installed.

 

[62Ranchero200]

I remember some hot rod installs, they would weld a tube in the oil pan to run the link through after the engine was installed.

That’s what I’d like to do, but the studs don’t come off of the centerlink, right? I don’t want to make the tube large enough for the stud to fit through, so I’d like to cut the centerlink, push it through the tube, then reweld it.

Thanks
Bob

 

[wme013]

Alternate plan that uses front sump pan. Take a deep breath before looking at the $$$, of course a Mustang II aint that cheap.
https://www.fatmanfab.com/product/1963- ... ersion-kit

 

[chad]

I remember some hot rod installs, they would weld a tube in the oil pan to run the link through after the engine was installed.

THAT is sooo Krazy, no?
Lub ta see some pic !

I see lots of aftrmrkt manufacturers making these kits wme0. I think this one (no pic) sez: "...Rack and pinion mounting crossmember and clamps with special steering arms..." to indicate what I have been calling 'K" member in other threads last/this wk. Probably not. There are so many of them I have some concern w/quality and shuffling thru 'the pack' (making decisions). Take a look at what Mike has done on this forum (our site) under "My budget build 250". Thnx for yet nother one (our site man Perry may use the 1st I saw Bilstien's Street or Track). I see the Max.M.S. one on the fox alot. The falcon guys go w/2 or 3 different ones...

 

[wme013]

No idea of quality, but FatMan has been around for a long time. They work with folks that can scrounge and folks who want a package deal.
Main point was that this setup uses a front sump oil pan. It all boils down to your time, talent and $$$, as everybody has different quantities of each.

 

[62Ranchero200]

Moving forward with fabbing a rear sump pan. Have a spare 250 short block on an engine stand. Just picked up a pan along with a used oil pump and pickup (for checking clearance). Came up with the below drawing:



3D tools had me pulling my hair out, finally used TinkerCad (browser based and free).

My welder friend is visiting Sunday.

Thanks
Bob

 

[drag-200stang]

When you fab up your pickup make sure that it does not get down sized...Maybe look into a high performance pickup from a rear sump V8.. It should have a slightly larger tube, of course it will need to be modified, but will give you something to work with.
Ford at one time had a kit to modify a 200 pump for racing, It consisted of a larger tube, pickup,larger ported pump inlet cover and a stiffer spring...So I think that suck side maters but I am sure it could be over done.

 

[chad]

U no what Idid, no cad or pain, works.

Have not climbed any mountains yet tho

 

[62Ranchero200]

Progress - after much measuring, made a drawing, a 2-D template, then a 3-D template. Pan is 17 gauge, that thickness is not available, will use 16 gauge. Next: cut sacrificial oil pan about three inches from rail.







Thanks
Bob the Builder

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Bob, did you already change the front suspension? If not how do you know what shape you need to make the pan?

 

[62Ranchero200]

Hi Bob, did you already change the front suspension? If not how do you know what shape you need to make the pan?

@bubba,

I’m trying to minimize the time the Ranchero is parked. The only way to put the R&C crossmember in place would be to cut out the existing suspension. Not quite ready to do that yet as there’s an early January show I’d like to take the Ranchero to.

I’ve looked at many pictures of installed crossmembers and asked questions of those who have installed them.

Also, there is probably a maximum amount of front oil pan clearance you can get with a 250, assuming a wet sump system with its pump and pickup and a sump that holds at least 4 quarts (factory capacity). I’d like to maximize front oil pan clearance.

Thanks
Bob

 

[62Ranchero200]

Some progress:





We are going to use one long piece of 16 gauge metal for the front, sides and back, with only one welded seam; and one piece of metal for the bottom of the sump. Still have to extend the pickup, make the bulge for the oil pump, weld in the new dipstick bung, and the drain plug bung.

Thanks
Bob

 

[bmbm40]

Looks good so far. I am going to end up with a similar pan eventually.