Reliability and Performance Upgrade

66mustang0103

Well-known member
Ive been restoring a 66 mustang to be used as my daily driver. Im new to the forum and have searched but didnt find anything on the subject. Does anyone know of some stuff to do to that would improve the performance, reliability, and power? (while keeping cost in mind) Here of some of the things I have thought of.

Engine 200ci engine
Porting and Polishing Heads and Intake
Dual Exhaust with headers
New electronic ignition (havent decided which one but would be one with vacumn advance that way I can keep the auto lite 1100 carb)

Car Itself
Converting to all around disc breaks


Im 16 and dont know much performance wise. Any suggestions would be great! thanks in advance!
 
Welcome to the forum

In regards to four wheel disc brakes, unless you have 5-lug brakes already you won't be able to do it cheaply. There are no rear wheel disc kits available for the 4-lug brakes.
Fortunately, there is something available to install discs on the front with 4-lug brakes. Check out http://www.scarebird.com . They have adapters that allow you to use rotors and calipers from newer vehicles. I've found http://www.rock-auto.com a great place to purchase the rotors and calipers.

Good luck.
 
Welcome.

One note on disc brakes. generally, upgrading to 4 wheel disc is more for show, and less for slow. Rear brakes only do about 20-30% of your braking. Its why even a lot of modern cars still use rear drums. The reason I bring it up is that it is an expensive conversion, even if you have 5 lug rear end already, and a conversion that doesn't offer much in the way of an upgrade. That $500-$1k in my opinion can be better spent elsewhere on the car. Though, by all means, upgrade the front to disc. That will make an early mustang stop very quickly. I can do 60-0 in about 160 feet. Yes, I did measure it. Five times...

If you are going to pull the engine (or it's already out) consider a cam swap. You can do it with the engine in the car if you remove the radiator. Or, upgrade to 1.6 roller rockers. Both of those will run around $300-500 that you'll save on the rear disc conversion and will really open up the 200 for performance. The modifications you've listed will add some performance, but not as much as a cam or high ratio rockers.

Also, is the mustang automatic or manual?

For reliability, going with pertronix or Duraspark 2 (DS2) will greatly improve performance, drivability, and reliability. (http://www.kastang.info/pertvds2.html) I've run both and both are easy, and cheap upgrades. With cost in mind, I would hold off on considering a DUI. Those are costly, with minimal gains until you get to some high end engine builds, at least compared to the other options. I prefer DS2, mostly for the over the counter replacement at pretty much any parts house (autozone, pepboys, western auto, etc...).
 
The main reason for maybe converting to 4 wheel disc breaks would be to convert the car from 4 lug to 5. You do have a very good point though about how the cars main stopping power is in the front. I didnt actually think about doing the front only but that would be a good idea even if I dont convert the back. All the kits I have looked at (havent looked at many) have been from http://www.dallasmustang.com/ . And did you only convert the front on your car? Cause that is a really good stopping distance!

As far as the engine I am kinda contemplating on pulling the engine out. I took the valve cover off and the rocker assembly was practically spotless! Pretty much no engine sludge at all! So the engine itself is in real good shape and runs like new! I do have plans on pulling the heads though to replace valve seals , head gasket, and probably porting and polishing it. I have thought a little bit about a new cam but dont really have a good idea of which one/kind to get. Or if the one I do get will open the valves to much and they will crash into the pistons. I did not think about high ratio rockers though. How hard would it be would it be to do these upgrades?

As for the ignition I have read an article that suggested a DUI street/strip distributor that had a vacum advance. I read your article on the petronix and the DS2. And those seem to be about the same compared to the DUI for a mild build. did the DS@ or the petronix help with your MPG at all?
Oh and by the way it has a C-4 automatic.
 
The only reason CobraSix doesn't recommend the DUI ignition is the cost compared to just going to a DS2 ignition

A DUI for our inline costs about $375, less the ignition wires. Check it out here http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=110
A new DS2 from Classic Inlines cost $255, but you can get a used one for a lot less; distributor and module for about $100.

I'm changing from 4-lug to 5-lug and it is a little pricey.
Minimum, you have to replace the front spindles, brake backing plates, cylinders, drums, brake shoes, and brake hardware.
For the rear you have to change out the complete rear axle, drum to drum, with one from a V8.
You would also have to modify your driveshaft to accept a larger rear yoke and universal joint because the 6cyl driveshaft is smaller in diameter.
This will just get you a 5-lug drum brake system. This doesn't include upgrading to discs, or upgrading the front steering linkages to V8 (Complete V8 steering linkage will cost between $300-$400 new)

Best bang for your buck is to upgrade to 4-lug front disc and DS2 igniton.

My $0.02
 
Scarebird is the hot tip for discs in front. They use mostly off the shelf parts and cost half or less than the full kits you can get from, for example, Stainless Steel Brake.

Try these guys for the rears. They are a lot better than stock and more than you need with discs in front. From what I can find, these guys used to be called Praise Dyno Brake. The will even give you the 'brake in a box' with all the parts already mounted on the backing plate, which you change out.

http://www.musclecarbrakes.com/

Rear discs for four lugs are unnecessary and needlessly expensive. That your level of performance, you don't really need a 5 lug setup yet. Of course, the ol' rear end will tell you when you do need a bigger diff and axle.
 
Brake upgrades are a safety issue, probably should be first on anyone's list. So, dump the single circuit jelly jar for a '68 dual drum master. Then, drill the drums (do a search for drilled drums).
Dual master + a few fittings = $45 or $50.
Drilled drums = $0.00.

I raced a '66 Corvair for several years with drilled drums. You won't see much, if any, difference between drilled drums and typical disc swap system performance. Before bolt-on, wallet hotrodder aftermarket disc swaps became fairly common, drilling drums was pretty standard hotrod fare.

After the brakes, the best daily driver mods are:
1) Modern carb (1946) and Duraspark.
2) New 16/1 steering box.
3) A/C and cooling system upgrade.
4) T5 transmission.

Always keep in mind what the car's intended purpose is. Daily drivers aren't track cars, why build one that way?
You easily can spend a fortune on "upgrades" that don't really upgrade anything.

Rick(wrench)
 
rocklord":309ue38c said:
The only reason CobraSix doesn't recommend the DUI ignition is the cost compared to just going to a DS2 ignition

Exactly. the DUI is a nice set up, but for a mildly built engine, the gains are likely minimal compared to a DS2 set up. You can do a complete DS2 conversion, without anything fancy, for about $125, if you go with new parts. If you go on ebay or junkyards, you may be able to save $25 on the distributer. I'm a bang for the buck kind of guy. Both improved mileage, but also because I put a 40kV coil in at the same time. The combination of better ignition and hotter coil allowed me to open up the plug gap from .035" to .055" which will improve flame front and propogation = more efficient burn resulting in better power and mileage.

By all means, go 5 lug as it opens up lots of options. But just get a 8" rear end with 5 lug from a 65-66 mustang. Easy swap. Plus, the drums are the 8" rear are HUGE compared to the tiny things on the 7.25" rear that is in your mustang now. I wouldn't do a 4 lug to 5 lug conversion on a 7.25" rear end. even a mildly built 200 will eat that rear end up quickly once it gets close to 100HP. Those kits for rear disc brakes are for 8" rear ends. Rocklord gave you some good info on the swaps. Best bet is to keep an eye out here, area mustang forums, places like www.vintage-mustang.com, and craigslist. Look for someone parting out a 65-66 mustang. I was able to score an entire front end, steering, and rear end for $125 and a 3 hour round trip. I got everything, spindle to spindle, all steering parts, and complete drum to drum on the rear end. Took some patience to find though. If you go with v-8 front spindles, I can't remember if it's required, but I'd recommend going with a v-8 steering set up. The pitman, idler, drag link, and tie rods are different. I know some people mate tie rods to match. I personally don't know much about that set up as I did a complete v-8 front end swap.

For cams, it is sort of personal taste. I don't like big lopey sounding engines. For me, I'd stick in the 260-270 range for cams. Though, cam selection is not a strong suit of mine. I do love my Comp Cam 260H, but that was before Classic Inlines was around. I'd go with one of their grinds now if I was going to replace my cam. The biggest benefit from even a mild cam, is the increased valve lift. Going from something like .35" of lift to .45" of lift with longer duration allows more air and fuel to get crammed in the cylinder = more fun!

If you don't want to do the cam, consider 1.6:1 ratio rockers that Classic Inlines has. I call them a "top end cam job". They will increase lift as well, even on a stock cam. While replacing a cam is relatively easy with the engine out, you can replace the rockers in 30 minutes maybe, while the engine is in the car. You do have to be careful when you combine the two though as you may end up with some valve interference issues with the piston, but that depends on some other factors like block decking and head milling and gasket thickness. The cam is generally cheaper to buy, but more involved to swap out. I've never done one in a car, but others have on the 200. It's a massively long cam, which is why you have to remove the radiator if you do it in the car. Honestly, the best way to do it is to pull the engine. So, if you don't have access to a cherry picker (or chain hoist and strong garage or tree limb) and an engine stand, the high ratio rockers may end up cheaper.

As you'll find out...cost of upgrades is highly variable. For example, I've done two T5 swaps, and maybe spent $500 total. Some spend more. I scored that V-8 steering, brakes, and rear end for $125. The drag link alone is $125 new. But, I was able to leave my car in the garage for months on end. Also, since I knew what my end goal was, I would look 6-12 months in advance of actually planning to do the work. That's how I found deals.

However, I did splurge on the brakes. I did go with an SSBC kit for v-8 5 lug front end. Not the cheapest, but the parts are standard so I can actually go to autozone and pick up rotors and pads for a 65 mustang. Also, by the time I got to my brakes, I actually had 3 different set ups in my garage and decided against them.

BTW, fill out your info. You never know if someone here is close and may have parts available. I for one, have a complete 65 mustang GT disc brake set up sitting in my garage. Bearings are frozen, and it's basically worthless except for the spindle and backing plate. But I'm too lazy to try to ship something that heavy....
 
Howdy 0103:

And Welcome to a great forum. There is a wealth of information here and some very helpful and willing folks. The more detailed, specific and complete you can be the better we are able to help you. For example, What is your budget? What is your mechanical ability? Who do you have to help you? What is your intent and intended us for your Mustang? Have you bought a Shop Manual yet?

Given the fact that you are 16, my guess is that you don't have much of a budget???? Set some realistic goals for your car and plan out a plan. Be on the lookout for a mechanic who likes and understands your car project. On vehicles with carbs and distributors that usually involve someone over the age of 50.

In the meantime, let me suggest that you assess the safety issues with your car; tires, suspension, brakes and lights. At the same time give your stock engine a thorough look see; points, rotor and cap, plug wires and spark plugs, vacuum lines, carb, air cleaner, fuel filters, belts and hoses. These are the parts where reliability starts. Once all of this is squared up, consider a performance tune-up. That will include setting the initial advance at 5 degrees more than stock specs and tuning the low speed air screw on the carb for highest vacuum reading.

Once you've done these things you will have a much better idea of what you have, where you want to go, and how to get it done. IF you want more of the easy and inexpensive consider a Petronix Ignitor kit for your stock Load-O-Matic distributor. It is married to your stock Autolite 1100 carb with its Spark Control Valve (SCV).

PS- don't pass over rickwrench's suggestion about upgrading the stock master cylinder for a '67 dual bowl version. It is possible the best single safety suggestion yet.

Well, enjoy and keep the questions coming.

Adios, David
 
On camshafts go with comps extreme energy series or schneider cams.

These cams have the faster rate of lift as compared to the clay smith cams.

A camshaft which only needs 50 lbs of seat pressure is old school.

The above cams require 100# plus seat pressureto handle there profile.

Another nice street cam is the Isky 262, great low end & midrange. Falcon man
 
Cobrasix, I do think Ill take your suggestion on going with the DS2 rather than the DUI. Its cheaper and you made a good point the DS2 will be about the same performance wise. I also believe I will go ahead and upgrade the coil to. Because anything that will increase MPG is a major plus! And unless the cam is worn out (200,000 miles on it est.) I will probably leave it be, but probably will take your suggestion on upgrading the rockers. I wouldnt really wanna do them both because of piston and valve interference. That would be a pain to fix and costly. I will definetly keep an eye out for a 8" rearend from a 65 to 66 mustang. Also what exactly is a T-5 swap? I know it mean a 5 speed manual but I thought that meant replacing the tranny? I was curious cause you said you did two of them for under $500.
 
CZLN6":2dud4gke said:
Howdy 0103:

And Welcome to a great forum. There is a wealth of information here and some very helpful and willing folks. The more detailed, specific and complete you can be the better we are able to help you. For example, What is your budget? What is your mechanical ability? Who do you have to help you? What is your intent and intended us for your Mustang? Have you bought a Shop Manual yet?

Given the fact that you are 16, my guess is that you don't have much of a budget???? Set some realistic goals for your car and plan out a plan. Be on the lookout for a mechanic who likes and understands your car project. On vehicles with carbs and distributors that usually involve someone over the age of 50.


My budget suprisingly is $10,000, a majority of that will be body work cause it has been in some wrecks and has a few rust issues. Whatever is left I am going to spend on upgrades starting with safety, reliability, and MPG first.

My mechanical ability is I would say good for a 16 year old. I know a fair amount on engines. And all the basics about transmission, rear end, suspension, steering, ect..... I do have my grandpa helping me who knows alot more than I do. My mechanical ability is growing every week. I have bought a shop manual, it was one of the first things I bought.

As far as the plan goes I do have one and it is as follows. First thing I am doing is getting everything back in working order windows, electrical, engine, heater. All that good stuff. I am also taking alot of stuff apart and cleaning it real good then painting it with rust-oleum to protect it from rust. And make it look better of course! From there I will go on to doing all the body work and getting it back in good shape. Once that is done I may take the drivetrain out (haven't decided for sure yet) that way I can clean-up, repaint the underside and engine bay of the car. After that I will test fit all modifications I make to make sure they fit well before the exterior gets painted. Then put it all back together.

As far as what you said about the tune up, the plugs, rotor, cap, points, belts and some gaskets and hoses not all...yet.
 
For all those giving me ideas about the brakes. I have kinda combined them all. As of this moment it is as follows more suggestions are definitely welcome and thanks for those that have given them. They are very helpful!

4 lug discs up front
rear end will probably be left alone other than maybe drilling them. it would be pointless to upgrade the rear to 4 lug disc, if it got upgraded it would definitely be 5 lug with new 8" rear
A new dual bowl master cylinder
new lines and fittings if they are needed
 
I don’t want to rain on your parade, but knowing what I know about rust, and if I had a 10K budget, I’d be looking for a different car. I bought my rust free, nice paint ’66 for about half your budget. I have since put about $500 into it on different parts and upgrades like all new brake hoses, duel bowl master cylinder, new front brakes (I stuck with the drums for now) and a DSII distributor. The DSII was the best bang for the buck as far as making it run better, most everything else was safety related.
 
Jimlj66, the car was given to me last April as kinda and early birthday present from my uncle. He has had it for several years and he even drove it when he was a kid. So it has a sentimental value to it. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have gotton the car, I would have gotton with a lil better body on it. So changing cars isn't really an option. I did trailer it to a body shop and have them give me an estimate. I told them I already have all the body panels and they told me roughly 5k. I know several people who are good at body work and may have them help me out. That way I can save some money and learn something new maybe. :lol: But thanks for the suggestion man.
 
Cam's really don't wear out. I mean, they do, but it's not a real factor. I'm not saying you can't do both, just something you have to check prior to starting the car up. Plenty of people have done both.

Learn from my mistakes. Make a plan. Make a long term plan and a short term plan. It'll make your decisions easier. Otherwise, you end up with wasted time and money as you swap out parts.

For example, if your goal is more than 100RWHP out of the 200, you do need to start considering going up to the 8" rear end, especially if you are young and will likely beat on it more then some of us. I know once I got to 140RWHP, my 7.25" rear lasted a summer before it was almost done. Now how does this affect your plan? Well, if you do a 4 lug disc up front, with an 8" 5 lug in the rear (there are some 4 lug 8" out there, but they are hard to come by) then you have mismatched wheels. Consider instead, upgrading to a V-8 front end, with v-8 drums. V-8 drums are MASSIVE compared to the I6 ones. I mean...they are significantly different. V-8 drums and spindles are relatively cheap and open the way for cheaper disc brake upgrades down the road.

Otherwise, you end up like me and doing things 2-3 times as you change your mind.

First focus should be getting the car road worthy and driveable.

1) Dual Res Master Cylinder (do this first!)
2) Electronic ignition

Then see where you are both money and drivability wise.

the T5 is the five speed upgrade and does require a transmission swap. But I scored my first T5 (a 4 cylinder) for $250, rebuilt. The adaptor, crossmember, and other stuff maybe cost me $250. Generally, the T5s are $1000, but if you take your time, you can find cheaper.

Don't be afraid to hack into these cars and learn. They are simple, easy cars to learn on. And there is a plethora of information on the web and in libraries about restoring them.
 
IMO reliability is #1 as I use my only car as a daily driver, you have a great plan.

brakes were the best thing so far IMO that I've done so far. I emailed scarebird brakes and they sent me everything for the spindles to brake line for $500, hubs/disks/loaded calipers/bolts/brake line, I pieced it out locally and I would've spent $675 as I needed new hubs. plus the 160 for the rest: dual master cyl, pipes, block/fittings and rear proportial valve

the t5 was defenitly a fun upgrade, extra gears and shifting are fun... and it's nice that I have a granny gear.

AC is great, but it has it's draw backs, on these old motors (face it 47 yrs + on a motor that has been around several blocks :rolflmao: ) as your MPG is decreased. I see in city 18 w/ AC and 21 W/o AC, hwy I get 23 and 25 w/o.

other thing to do is upgrade to an electrc fan, that was 4mpg hwy & 1mpg city for me :)

rickwrench":abu4n0fq said:
Always keep in mind what the car's intended purpose is. Daily drivers aren't track cars, why build one that way?
Daily drivers aren't? dang :bang:
 
Cobrasix, would I get the dual bowl master cylinder from a 67-68 right? And once I get it are there any modifications that need to be made or will it bolt right up? On the ignition, I do plan on taking your suggestion and upgrading to the DS2 and a DUI Inferno coil from Classic Inlines. Do you know if they will bolt right up to? Also do you know If I would be able to hook a Tach up to the Inferno coil? Its my preference to have a full set of gauges. Also for now I will probably keep it below a 100RWHP just to keep from having to upgrade the steering, rearend, ect. I may upgrade to 4 lug discs up front, cause it may stay below 100hp until Im out of collage.

MPGmustang, thanks for the tip on the fan I will definitely look into it. Anything increasing the mileage is a plus!! Thanks everyone for you help and patience. Josh
 
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