Small Six in a BMW E30?

['68falconohio]

No, sorry I do not have pics of a swap. Rather, asking if anyone's done it. I wasn't sure where the best place to post such a question would be but a buddy just picked an E30 up for cheap with a blown engine and I'm trying to 'suade him into a turbo Ford Six powered drift car.

Any insight appreciated.

Thanks

 

[falcon fanatic]

I for one would be hard pressed to consider replacing a modern overhead cam engine with a pushrod engine that was designed over forty years ago. To make the same power from a 250 that he can get from the BMW engine would cost much more and require a considerably longer development period to get it tuned and running right. He could do a pretty basic rebuild on the original blown engine with some stronger pistons and a turbo and wire all of the existing FI gear to a Megasquirt so much more easily than what you are proposing. Not to be a downer or nothin becasue I understand the gee whiz ain't that cool factor of your idea, but it doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense. To me, anyhow.

 

[rocklord]

I'm in agreement with falcon fanatic, the M20 engine is better than our inline six.

If your friend wants more power, he could install the BMW M50 inline six, a common upgrade. Or he could go with a Ford 5.0 conversion here http://www.e30v8.com .

Even if your friend wanted to go with a Ford inline six, I'd be afraid of hood clearance. The BMW engine six is slanted to allow for hood clearance. We have enough problems with installing the 250 in our vehicles, let alone in a BMW.

 

[MustangSix]

If you want to go to the trouble of swapping in an interesting ford engine, consider this instead:

 

[CobraSix]

It never ceases to amaze me what people will shove the 302 into.

But I do agree. THe BMW range of engines are far superior to the 200/250. Better range of upgrades.

Which begs the questions...why not put a BMW I6 into a classic mustang?


hmmm....

 

[Beemer+ford6lover]

Now cobra six is onto something there, like maybe the e46 m3's s54 3.2liter six. 333HP and 278lb-ft of torque! Those are v8 rivaling numbers! The only problem with shoving a bmw six in is the wiring issues along with speedometers. I'm pretty sure the E36 had a speed sensor in the diff and i know the E46 has one on each wheel.

 

[rocklord]

Now cobra six is onto something there, like maybe the e46 m3's s54 3.2liter six. 333HP and 278lb-ft of torque! Those are v8 rivaling numbers! The only problem with shoving a bmw six in is the wiring issues along with speedometers. I'm pretty sure the E36 had a speed sensor in the diff and i know the E46 has one on each wheel.

You could go with the M50 found in the E36 or E34 that came with OBDI; 2.5L, 192 hp@ 5900, 184 ft·lbf @ 4200 with a 6500rpm redline. The early ones didn't come with the speed sensor in the differential.

 

['68falconohio]

The car had a M10?(4 cylinder) in it. That's where the fordsix idea came from...nothing to build and ford sixes are free around here. With the displacement advantage over the M20, 4.1l vs 2.7l, I bet a boosted 250 could hold its own. Cowl hoods are cool...

He found a donor E30 car that was wrecked last wk that we're pulling six cylinder/trans. out of along with all the electronics to make it purr. Met the guy he bought everything from today; he's actually a straight six guy of sorts, turbo 200 Falcon and a few other inline projects(classic BMW & Ford). I'm trying to get him to join the fordsix community.

MusatangSix,
Start giving them away and I would.

 

[CobraSix]

Yeah, would have to start with an M50 and combine it with a MS2. But, on the same token, can't think why the S54 can't be converted to run just on an MS2 ECU, that way you don't have to worry about the sensors. I mean, an engine is still an engine...spark, fuel, and air. The sensors are just for the ECU to temper the engine from going too crazy for traction control software.

 

[rocklord]

Yeah, would have to start with an M50 and combine it with a MS2. But, on the same token, can't think why the S54 can't be converted to run just on an MS2 ECU, that way you don't have to worry about the sensors. I mean, an engine is still an engine...spark, fuel, and air. The sensors are just for the ECU to temper the engine from going too crazy for traction control software.

I don't believe the S54 engine can be converted to MS2 without losing some of its HP. Starting with the the M50TU engine, BMW installed the VANOS system on their engines. According to the wiki article "VANOS is a combined hydraulic and mechanical camshaft control device managed by the car's DME engine management system. The VANOS system is based on a discrete adjustment mechanism that can modify the position of the intake camshaft versus the crankshaft. Double-VANOS adds continuous adjustability to the intake and exhaust camshafts."
I don't believe the MS2 ECU can handle variable valve timing. I have seen articles where MS has been installed on BMW engines M50 and earlier so that wasted spark ignition and larger injectors could be used that made a significant difference in the driveability and performace.

The DME (Digital Motor Electronics) that BMW uses is Bosch Motronic with the latest systems having a replaceable/reflashable ROM. With BMW, Porsche, Audi, and Volvo utilizing their system there is a growing industry selling reprogrammed chips. When later engines are installed in earlier BMWs the engine wiring harness with DME for that engine is swapped over. If the earlier vehicle does not have traction control or stability control sensors, a reprogrammed chip can usually be purchased for the DME that tells the system to ignore those sensors.

I've been following a thread on a BMW forum where the M50 24V DME system has been installed onto the M20 12V engine with success. This has inspired me to research if the Bosch EFI system found on the 2.5L M50 engine could be retrofitted onto our 200. This system is OBDI utilizing a MAF (mass air flow) sensor with COP (coil on plug) ignition. The problems I've encountered with this system is the M50 is a 24V engine that utilizes an ignition map that is retarded for our 12V sixes so it would have to be reprogrammed with a more aggressive map, and the engine utilizes both a crank sensor and cam sensor that would have to be retrofitted.

I've always thought that a MAF EFI is a very good system for our inlines, and if the above problems can be resolved, the Bosch system would be economical with the numerous 92 325s and 91-92 525s found in junkyards (sorry, auto recycling facilities).

 

[CobraSix]

That's right...that would be a pain.

But hey, like you said, install a later version and get it reprogrammed without the sensors.

 

[Beemer+ford6lover]

I would just hate having to go through that wiring harness! Omg, even on the E30 and E36 chassis's the harnesses are insanely involved and wired through out not just the engine bay but many components inside the passenger compartment. The E46 is even worse than that! I know many guys have the paitence for that kind of stuff, but not me!