So tired of this problem...

[Bort62]

Just use a nail or something to drive the spring pin out.

Does the hex on the bottom of the distributor look worn? This just happend one day while you were driving - right?

Make sure the shaft is the same size as the distributor. I am not familiar with the oil pump on these motors, is it possible that the shaft has fallen down into the pump more than it is supposed to, causing it not to engage the distributor ?

Some way or another, your shaft is not engaging the distributor. The fact that it previously may only be the result of it not setting down in the oil pump all the way for some unknown reason. At some point, it dropped the rest of the way down...

Good luck.

 

[wallaka]

Thanks. I figure it's that spring clip thing that Ludwig mentioned--I don't remember one.

EDIT: And let this be a reminder of the importance of the right tool. I tried to hammer the roll pin out with a nail, but got nothing but bent nails and a bruised thumb. Don't know why I tried it again...never worked for me before. If you leave the point on the nail, it just spreads the roll pin apart, and if you cut the tip off of the nail, it bends.

 

[Bort62]

I've knocked them out with a nail plenty of times...

 

[wallaka]

Guess I ain't that talented, then! It's just a small pin, and there is a little rust there. I might end up drilling it, I dunno. I can borrow a punch from my Dad easily enough. Not worrying about it tonight, though.

 

[flatford6]

DON'T take the gear off the distributor, they are a bastard to get back on right, ie. the drive pin hole to line up. Instead remove the distributor and measure. Measure from the bottom of distributor flange, the part that touches the block when installed, to the bottom end of the distributor hex SHAFT. Then measure from where the flange touches the block down into the engine to the BOTTOM of the hex hole in the distributor. Compare the measurements. If I remember right, isn't the hex shaft pinned into the bottom of the distributor shaft. I don't remember the sizes of the shafts, but they may vary by the year of manufacture. Also, the oil pump shaft is pressed into the center roter of the oil pump. Maybe it is too far in.

 

[Bort62]

DON'T take the gear off the distributor, they are a bastard to get back on right, ie. the drive pin hole to line up.

uh, not really. Pretty trivial actually.

 

[addo]

Kevin, any progress?

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

when I put my 200 in my fairlane I accidently picked up a 2.3L oil pump drive....same size only about 1" shorter. same deal. motor would run but no pressure. I say check your length. try spining it over with a drill motor if you can. was the pump primed? has it ever had pressure?

I used a allen key to drive out pins on a couple dizzys when I was making the couple of EEC4 dizzys......and HF allen key at that.///still had the 90 bend in it which makes it a real pain to do.

 

[wallaka]

Kevin, any progress?

Nah, it's been too cold here to work in the garage. The lows have been about 15° F (-10° for you, buddy) this week. I don't mind working when it is 40 or above because the sun warms the garage enough to be tolerable.

I've stayed indoors this week. Of course, next week it's supposed to be around 80°, so I'll have no excuse then!

The Allen key is a good tip, I think I'll try that. I have a couple extra sets.

 

[addo]

A little factual detail... We need to conserve speculation in case it ever is underpriced!



Left photo is pump end. This shaft had not been removed since 1968 when the motor was built by Ford. Interesting to note is the skewed wear pattern on the pump end; either a looser fit in the rotor or the result of significant torque.

Using the dimensions provided (steel rule) the required shaft length may be measured/calculated and checked against actual.

 

[wallaka]

So, I was thinking the problem might be that the oil pump isn't pumping enough to register while the engine is turning over. Got a drill and spun the oil pump at the same time that I cranked the motor over a few times. I'd estimate that the drill was turning 750 rpm or so, it couldn't turn very fast (in fact, I think I damaged the drill...it's OK, it was cheap). The oil pressure stayed at 60 psi or above the whole time.

I've been trying to get the drive gear off of my spare dizzy, and am not having much luck. I removed the roll pin, and have not been able to get the gear to budge. I guess I need a gear puller, because the block of wood and hammer is not cutting it. I think that is now moot, however.

I measured the drive shaft, and it is only 5 1/8" long. According to Addo, the shaft is 6 1/8" long. To confirm, I also measured how far down the shaft sits in the hole, and it is longer than the protrusion on the distributor.

This is the STOCK shaft, it had been in there since 1964. I suppose that the new oil pump is either missing a stop or has the drive machined differently somehow. Maybe it was binding in the oil pump, and that is what held it up enough to seat in the distributor. Then it seated in and dropped down.

So, I need a shaft that is 6 1/8" long and 5/16" in diameter. If anybody thinks differently, let me know.

 

[Bort62]

Well, I don't have a shaft in front of me... but from addo's post it appears to be the problem.

You sure that is the stock shaft? And what motor do you have... from '64, could be a 170...

 

[wallaka]

Definitely a 200. Seven mains, hydraulic lifters, and 3.68 bore. Plus the air cleaner sticker confirms . It was the shaft that came out of the engine, and at least since '75 when my granddad bought it, that's what has been in there.

 

[Lazy JW]

Personally, I would NOT put a new drive shaft in there without first inspecting the innards of the pump.
Best wishes,
Joe

 

[wallaka]

Already did that 2-3 times. I've seen no scoring, no wear marks, no dings, no scuff marks, etc in either the housing or rotors. The cover mounting surface is true.

I can't see any problems inside where the drive goes, either. The edges look square (well, 60 degrees or so ).

 

[Bort62]

So since it seems clear that your driveshaft is too short... the question is: where did it come from?

 

[addo]

Hold it, holt it...

I posted those pictures as a "relative guide" to where the contact points were at each end.

Our Aussie cam bore and crank bore centreline distance is greater by about 3/8". A 3/8" pitch chain uses the same sprockets, but has 52 links for an Oz motor, vs 50 for a US block...

As you've confirmed the excess depth of the oil pump's receiving end, work with that and the distributor protrusion to get the required length - don't take is as a given that you need an Aussie shaft size. I expect it'll be closer to 5 5/8".

 

[wallaka]

OK, I did more research. I have the correct length. I finally got the friggin' distributor gear off of my main distributor (after breaking a tooth off of the spare one, natch) and it definitely engages the oil pump.

So, I am under the conclusion that the oil pump isn't providing a sufficient volume of oil when the engine is turning at running speed. If you guys agree, I suppose I'll get a new pump, and this time I'm getting a new drive shaft as well. They are only 6 bucks, cheap enough.

HOPEFULLY, this will be the end of this saga.

 

[Lazy JW]

...
I'd estimate that the drill was turning 750 rpm or so, it couldn't turn very fast (in fact, I think I damaged the drill...it's OK, it was cheap). The oil pressure stayed at 60 psi or above the whole time....

This, and the fact that you have dis-assembled the pump several times makes me think that the pump is good. Where is the bypass located on this system?
Joe

 

[wallaka]

It's on the pump. It wasn't sticking or anything, but I couldn't tell you when it opens. I could maybe pump it up and listen for oil squirting in the pan.

I just really don't know what it could be. It had pressure, then all of a sudden it didn't. And it can hold pressure as long as the motor isn't running. I've checked for obstructions, blew out all of the oil passages, put new bearings in and plastigaged them to be sure of the clearance, primed the pump, checked the oil journal plug behind the timing chain, made sure the lifters are in place, and verified that oil gets through the rocker shaft.

I don't know what to do besides say **** it and get a new motor. If I have to pull the engine again, that is exactly what is happening. This will be four times since this summer, and I am tired of it. I haven't driven the car since September or so.