someone lay this out for me

Rojitoslowsixx

New member
Truck in question is the sig truck.
over the last couple of days, I've been looking through some of this aftermarket EFI stuff and I have seen different systems like the Holley Terminator X, Megasquirt, Microsquirt, PimpX, and the Moates Quarter horse (which i think is a piggy back system IIRC).
I wrecked the truck back in the end of December last year and as anyone naturally would, I wanna build the truck up, get some more power out of it etc.
Lately I've been looking at cams and finding that its not the easiest to throw in a decent cam while retaining the stock computer, ive seen prices for aftermarket EFI systems range between ~$300 for the microsquirt too ~$1400 some odd for the Holley terminator X system.
It seems like there's some folks who have a good idea about the aftermarket EFI systems, what I want to know is basically how these systems compare between price/difficulty to install or use/and lastly its capabilities (i.e. big power numbers or forced induction etc.) i have a hunch that the microsquirt will atleast allow you to bypass the stock computer and gain some tuneability, I'm OK with wiring, definitely not the best, if it comes down to it ill just have my buddy help me since he's not colorblind or afraid or wiring. I have budget but its more so based on whats gonna be optimal for a mild cam and some intake porting, 302 throttle body (just the basic bolt on/porting upgrades before going turbo)
any help is appreciated.
TIA
 

xctasy

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"Holley efi VS. Fueltech, Motec, Haltech, ProEfi, Aem, , Etc. Terminator X / HP - Dominator -sniper" by Joe Simpson from https://www.tempest-racing.com/


efiiv.jpg



The problem is how wiring and aged parts creates cost when you go off the Standard EECIV hymn book. Motec is the NASA grade IBM of wiring systems, and its an example of how important fault removal is contained by making the wiring mint. Ford, on the other hand, took immense liberties with the cost reduction without actually hurting performance. Mass produced stuff is always more reliable than Bugatti like triumphs of engineering over common sense. As it ages and gets Rat B@ 4+@rdized by vermin, peoples love for EECIV fades fast on 26 to 39 year old vechilces . Even more so if an EGR or Thermactor Air Diverter solenoid chucks a mental.

in defense of the EECIV, Ford build cars, and the Electronic Control Module Fo Mo Co brain box is a dedicated, mass produced computer with

Dealer Trouble Codes (DTC) which always help you out.

The Vaccum and Emissions Control Info (VECI) and the Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual ( EVTM ) are all mapped out and any problem can be fixed with a Code Reader, Class V Multimeter, and rewiring a stock rat and mice eaten bunch of faded candy coated banana grade wiring is easier than creating a great new Grokking Metropolis God.

Anything other than stock, you will be forced by charlatans to unhem and remove your 53 to 95 factory Emissions garments, and be royally interfered with privately in ways that would make Errol Flynn blush.

Anytime you go off that OEM loop to the "BAMA/HP Tuners/Moates/Mega/MircoSquirt/Pimp/Fueltech, Motec, Haltech, ProEfi, Aem, , Etc. Terminator X / HP - Dominator -sniper", you have to go through a What Do I know, What Don't I know, What Don't I know what I don't know self learning escapade.

The American situation is influenced by Federal law which at the birth of the emissions cars, played into the hands of BAR/CARB, State IM testing and the predilection every red blooded American has to cutting SH1+ out the stock crank case ventilation, EGR, Thermactor emissions package and doing a cut and curate on any EECIV sensor they don't understand. Then Ford makes is difficult with Five generations of the Same but different Duraspark I, II, III, non IDM TFI, IDM TFI ignitions systems, whereas the aftermarket tend to push Chevy HEI, Ford EDIS or Chevy Coil of Plug systems.

So its all like a box of chocolates, you don't know what your gonna get.

My background is Ford EECIV and V on Ford 200 and 250 inline Sixes. Propane systems on 250 cross flows and 2.8 liter Cologne V6'S and a few MegaSquirt's in my wife's Toyotas.

Down here, we use , except for the 4 bar GM MAP sensor, 100% factory EECIV systems with turbo charged inline sixes making 500 hp. It always amazes me how Americans start debating costs before even starting. Down here, TI Performance have 1500 hp Nissan and Ford twin cam turbo sixes to there name, with customers happy. In America, Ford still cannot sell bin code programs to customers without the EPA or CARB or BAR or other legal entities getting involved. Kiwis and Aussies arent bound by EPA edicts, so a stock looking 60 pin EECIV case might carry a Link, MegaSquirt, or EMS computer, or a stock EECIV or non OBDII EECV 103 pin plug ECM with a PowerChip.


That took me on a 5 year mission to learn everything important about EECIV.

I'd suggest you take 50 minutes, and see if you might be better or getting some good advice from SailorBob( Derek) and Decipha Mike from efidynotuning.com



 
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decipha

New member
In my experiences its pretty hard to compete with the stock ecu's. If its less than 1500 rwhp then best to stick with the stock ecu. If its a street vehicle then nothing aftermarket compares to the stock ecu.
 

Rojitoslowsixx

New member
In my experiences its pretty hard to compete with the stock ecu's. If its less than 1500 rwhp then best to stick with the stock ecu. If its a street vehicle then nothing aftermarket compares to the stock ecu.
Never knew that getting into the stock ECU was so useful I guess the aftermarket stuff is an easy way out?? Delving into the stock ECU seems interesting to me although I don’t know the first thing about em or coding etc, I’m not even that good with wiring
 

Rojitoslowsixx

New member
In my experiences its pretty hard to compete with the stock ecu's. If its less than 1500 rwhp then best to stick with the stock ecu. If its a street vehicle then nothing aftermarket compares to the stock ecu.
Looks like you’re based out of Louisiana, I’m interested, should this be continued over PM/email?
 

decipha

New member
We can continue here.

Yes Im in metairie directly across from the saints training camp my shop O&E Speed Shop is in kenner alongside the new - new orleans int'l airport. Where are you located?

aftermarket stuff works fine but its usually most cost effective, easier, faster and less headache to stick with the stock ecus. Not to mention a properly calibrated stock ecu will run the vehicle "like stock". Some aftermarket ecus are capable but your going to spend the bucks on them not only hardware but tuning wise as well.
 

Rojitoslowsixx

New member
We can continue here.

Yes Im in metairie directly across from the saints training camp my shop O&E Speed Shop is in kenner alongside the new - new orleans int'l airport. Where are you located?

aftermarket stuff works fine but its usually most cost effective, easier, faster and less headache to stick with the stock ecus. Not to mention a properly calibrated stock ecu will run the vehicle "like stock". Some aftermarket ecus are capable but your going to spend the bucks on them not only hardware but tuning wise as well.
I’m located in New Braunfels Texas, just out side of San Antonio.
I didn’t think staying with the stock ECU was possible honestly but after your reply and doing some reading on your website I’m sold.
Right now my goal is just be able to run the Comp Cams K66-248-4 kit but apparently people have not been able to run it with success on a bone stock ECU even with 93 octane fuel, I plan for a turbo in the future but right now I just wanted to be able to run a cam so I could Atleast have a little bit more pep than what it was factory.
-I appreciate your time TIA
 

decipha

New member
That cam is tame by any standards. Absolutely no reason why you can't run it. Toss her in and give me a shout.
 

pmuller9

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That cam is tame by any standards. Absolutely no reason why you can't run it. Toss her in and give me a shout.
Tame is the problem.
Without being able to change the ignition timing table that cam makes the engine detonation prone.
 

xctasy

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Most of the workarounds Moates use are like those from the LPG or municipal gas industry experience. Back in 2012, guys at MegaSquirt and EEC.Org had figured out how to pull timing via the various TFI and EDIS modues.

The EECIV couldn't pull spark in it incarnations, only fuel.

TFi and EDIS, there are only 3 extra lines of code to run EDIS, and the processes are similar.

See


EECIV wasn't friendly to turbo or Propane engines, it took Impco and an Italian gas company to work through the TFI restrictions. In 1984, Impco used it's Command module to do what the F3/ Jay bird system does easily now. The Turbo Cosworth Sierra and SVO Mustang and Escort Turbo were designed around boost retard via a different method.

It has always been possible to pull timing to base by the pin 2 and 5 looping in MicroSquirt, but managing a varying full curve under varying conditions is easily done with the F3/ Jay bird system. It allows a turbo style ignition curve to be added without hurting the base TFi tune.

See
It is switched and activated when needs require. This can be used on dual fuel Propane or Natural Gas instilations when one set of standard gasoline injectors might be shut down via a solenoid. The switching can occur on the fly, like the transition between closed and open loop. It's very effective. It avoids an aftermarket spark control system which might not handshake with the EECIV's spark functions.
 
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pmuller9

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I didn’t think staying with the stock ECU was possible honestly but after your reply and doing some reading on your website I’m sold.
Right now my goal is just be able to run the Comp Cams K66-248-4 kit but apparently people have not been able to run it with success on a bone stock ECU even with 93 octane fuel, I plan for a turbo in the future but right now I just wanted to be able to run a cam so I could Atleast have a little bit more pep than what it was factory.
-I appreciate your time TIA
What direction are you presently thinking?
 

Rojitoslowsixx

New member
What direction are you presently thinking?
After reading, reading, and more reading I became pretty confident that the Moates QH would allow me to do what I needed to in order to run that cam, my old boss/engine builder said he’s well versed in TunerProRT (the program used to communicate with the QH and actually tune it) he said he’d used it when he messed around with his turbo 4.0 jeep.

Realistically the ECU I have in my truck is literally the same thing that’s in a mustang, except it’s missing 2 injector drivers and obviously has a different fueling/timing table. You can even get a V8 computer and run the I6 off of it.

Either way I went ahead and purchased the Moates QH and the Comp Cams K66-248-4 and left it at that, no 1.7 rockers, head/intake porting etc. I figured I’d leave the truck modest and just install the cam and tune it, if I like how everything works out (pretty sure I will it’s just a matter of learning and adapting) I’m gonna move forward with a turbo 4.9 and put that in a foxbody mustang. Of course that’s down the road but as of now I’m comfortable with the QH and learning how to tune it
 

pmuller9

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Sounds good. Keep us posted as a lot of others will be interested in your progress.

Are you getting the cam kit with lifters, springs and timing gear?
 

Rojitoslowsixx

New member
Sounds good. Keep us posted as a lot of others will be interested in your progress.

Are you getting the cam kit with lifters, springs and timing gear?
Yes so it’s actually the SK kit I mis-typed in my last post, but it comes with the cam, springs, lifters, cam and crank gear, valve stem seals and the spring retainers/keepers.
I will definitely post back as I’m excited about this whole deal and love to give fellow members some insight on this, honestly if all this goes as planned and I end up learning how to use this Moates QH I’m going to have lot of fun with it between the truck and my 5.0 fox, and later down the line I’ll make my vision of a 300 swapped fox come to life, there’s another thread in this section of the forum that has the links to the videos for a 3 day Moates class, I’m currently watching this to familiarize my self with everything I need to, if anyone plans on going this route I would recommend y’all do the same
 
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