Starter Chewing Ring Gears...

[MPGmustang]

This is just my $.02, but I wouldn't skimp if you're seeking that reliability

I hear ya, but looks like I won't be able to get my mini starter, I have found on this forum taht FE starters for the BB fords fit and work great with the i6 with my 9inch clutch setup just need to make sure I get the 2 bolt pattern, but they are $200 most places.. I can't afford that right now, I'll have to see what the tranny runs first... limited funds ATM... granted I bet I spent more than that over the yrs to justify it...

I'll probably go with Napa, or Checker for the starter... would like a mini starter but really can't afford it right now.

 

[chad]

for the "mini" some 1 once suggested (2 clear headers) an '80s/90s 'stang starter. Not sure they knew I had a sm6 but that's what I told em. Check that 1 out just incase...

 

[MPGmustang]

update:
got the ring gear in from tomsbroncoparts.com, cooked it in the oven for 15min's @ 350* and tapped it with a 2lbs hammer onto my frozen flywheel,

Tranny shop is replacing front bearing and nose cone and sealing her back up, I'm working on a spacer to help keep this new guide bearing inplace, also picked up a new throw-out bearing, maybe I can take the old guide bearing and just use the middle, nock it out of the outer parts of the bearing... it's the right size, and I only need to keep the inner part of the bearing pushed in, should work nicely, I might have to shorten it, but that's easy... I'll have to try a mock up when I get the tranny back.

the starter I'll be going with reith auto car-quest, as they have the starters for the 200 mav, (they list the 67 200 mustang and 70 250 mav to have the same starter #?) if so couldn't any 60's v8 starter work with my car? I'll call around for more part numbers to compare, I think I saw some 302 mini starters for $69 somewhere... if it can fit and work properly??? why not???

I hope the car to be back on the road this week, hopefully thursday night. I miss AC in this 110* heat

 

[chad]

some 302 mini starters for $69 somewhere
Sounds like the 1s I suggested ('80s/90s 'stang).

 

[MPGmustang]

Sounds like the 1s I suggested ('80s/90s 'stang).

honestly very possible, IDK if they go to the 80's/90's as I haven't called around yet... but I will let you know (very curious now that I think about it)

Thanks Chad...

 

[MPGmustang]

well I'll get more details but look like I'll be looking for a new T-5... this will hurt the check book either way on reparing the 4cyl t-5 or getting a v8 t-5...

 

[MPGmustang]

Update:
new tranny is home, the other trans shop I'm really getting pissed at, , I asked two weeks ago for the tranny back and I still havn't seen it. :x , I'm very tempted to not pay for thier time, as I asked them to not do any work but let me know what's wrong with it, they told me, and I told them I want it back... very annoyed... I understand 1hr to tear it down, but gosh, 2 weeks!! sry little venting...
it's a V8 trans t-5, so my 3.2 rear will be like a 2.79 with the 4cyl trans... good thing I didn't put that in

so looking at bearings mainly "guide bearing" went to store and the brass bearing didn't fit the trans, tried a 89 5.0 bearing and it looked to be same outer dia but fit the tip of trans, now it too is loose and come out easy enough to cause concern... should I pound it in and see if it still comes out?
here you can see I got some play, so IF the bearing comes out, it can move in and out and might not "guide" the trans shaft/clutch to be dead on.(click to enlarge)


I have Reith-Auto ordering a starter, it's a reman, but they gaurentee it to work and be absolutly correct... I think I wanna fit test it too... I ordered one for a 67 mustang 200. should be here tomorrow.

If you guy's would like any pic's before I put the car back together, hopefully have the car back on the road thursday night.

thanks guy's

Richard

 

[Frankenstang]

Hey Richard, took the liberty of editing one of your pics cause I'm not exactly sure what we're looking at (here's the thumbnail...as you say, click to enlarge...probaby want to click again after photobucket page opens for max res)


The greenline with the 'x' is the "pilot bushing/bearing", but what is that inner center ring at the tip of the yellow line???
If I'm I following you, is that a pilot bearing instead of a bushing, and if so...is the tip of the yellow line pointing to the inner race?? If it is, it just looks odd because it does not appear to be aligned with the face of the rest of the 'bearing'...if that is what it is.

The red line is showing the point at which the correct "pilot bushing/bearing" should seat (don't know if an '89 is thicker...surprised the brass sytle didn't fit)...Again the tip of that red arrow is where the face of the correct pilot bushing/bearing should be able to be driven to (flush with that surface)...I've I used a piece of pvc or a wood drift to drive them home, and any number of tools to get the old buggers out (slide hammer, improvised pry, even a dremel if necessary etc). Pilot bushings/bearings should take several taps to drive home, and it's best to use something just smaller than the OD to seat them evenly (you should feel a difference tapping it once seated...duller thud). They must be fully seated, and should most often be a Royal PITA to take out.

Congrats on the bent8 tranny score, they're built tougher than the 4 bangers and nice plus is the step up to a steel bearing retainer sleeve. Good luck!

EDIT: so basically looks like that pilot bearing/bushing needs to be driven in further 1/4" or so guessing from the picture size (again all the way till seated, dull thud)...if it still wants to come loose then you might have to look at a very thin gauge shim of some sort that would cover the entire outer cirucumfrence or diameter of the bearing to keep it evenly centered but 'stuck'

 

[MPGmustang]

I basicly smashed the bearing flatter hopeing the sides would bulge out in a way, it kinda worked, everythign still is round per say and fit in the crank, and on the tranny point, this time I smashed the bearing in so to speak, took a large 1inch socket and extention (3/4 inch drive) and banged the crap out it, hopefuly I didn't make it wear out prematurly, but it's deffinetly stuck in now.

Robert, thanks for the reply, yup that yellow is the inner part of the pilot 'bearing', it's a nice bearing as you can see from the pics above. the red line might be for the stock, but this is a deep bearing, I can tell difference on my end from before/after the persuasion I gave the bearing to go in. IDK if pics captured it.

was thinking of plumming tape for a thin 'shim' but thought I want this to stay in so restored to the hammer, at least I know it won't come out now. hopefully this is the end all of all pilot bearing issues...

picking up the starter today, I'll def take picks with the old ring gear as the new one is lock-tite in. maybe I'll reassemble some for more pics. would rather be perfect than iffy at this point.

thanks
Richard

 

[Frankenstang]

I basicly smashed the bearing flatter hopeing the sides would bulge out in a way, it kinda worked, everythign still is round per say and fit in the crank, and on the tranny point, this time I smashed the bearing in so to speak, took a large 1inch socket and extention (3/4 inch drive) and banged the crap out it

I can see you made an 'impression' upon it (literally can see the socket mark, good pic)
...it's like Happy Gilmore said, "just tap-tap, tap it in" :rolflmao: but gotta admit BFH is one of my favorites. As long as it's 'stuck', the tranny shaft tip can fit, and it still turns, you should be good to go...and have something to look forward to whenever it does come time for a replacement , hopefully many, many moons and clutch servicings from now They often hold up through multiple clutch services (always good to check 'em when one is being done) but you should be golden.

Typically you want to get as close to the OD (outside diameter) of a pilot 'bearing' w/o meeting or exceeding it, so you're working on the strongest part of the outer race, but main thing is just not to drive on the center section alone and risk seperating it from the rest of the bearing assmbly.

was thinking of plumming tape for a thin 'shim' but thought I want this to stay in so restored to the hammer

I was wondering about teflon tape myself, but it would skim off easily without threads to imbed itself against...maybe 'metal' duct tape for a/c's or straight up duct tape<<yeehaw!...thin gauge brass or copper would probably be easiest and best, but looks like you don't have to worry about any of that now

 

[MPGmustang]

I did get a little carried away...

got the starter, here's some pic's comparing them...




little photo happy, my phone takes them and I can upload them to photobucket... feel free to browse... I'm not much of an album guy.

with them in hand, I have to give props to Reith-Auto, the gear seems smaller teeth (thin and less height) and smaller outer diameter, and it sits further in the starter, it still come's out as far as the othe zoo's starter. pics soon of the starter mounted up with the flywheel.

what do u guy's think so far?

 

[Luke76]

I'd say that's a noticeable difference on the spur gear. Given how far the other one stuck out when retracted compared to the new one makes it easy to see how it was getting chewed. Hopefully this solves your problem once and for all!

 

[MPGmustang]

:x looks like I hit another snag...

my clutch fork has developed a crak

another wall... got this when I picked up the bellhousing in 2009, been good ever since, guess I have to replace it as I'm sure it will eventually brake, and it looks like it will be soon.

it has DODA-7515-A on it, I'm thinking it means a 1980 clutch fork...

it has the clip on, not the tie/wire like the earlier ones. so I'm thinking this one will do?
http://www.dallasmustang.com/mustang-pa ... -1968/7675
I probably won't go for this one, but an idea that I'm looking for 68 and newer.

well it's been down 2 months what's another weekend...

 

[80broncoman]

:.....it has DODA-7515-A on it, I'm thinking it means a 1980 clutch fork...
...[/quote]
Don't you mean 1970??



I don't blame you wanting it all fixed correctly however If mine I'd be very tempted to install just the flywheel, bellhousing and then the starter. AND I'd take the cover or solinoid (if a mini starter) off the starter and engaauge the gears by hand while seeing though the trans hole to see what the gear engaugment looks like.
I'd get this starter problem figured out before doing anything to do with the trans.

 

[MPGmustang]

to see what the gear engaugment looks like........... I'd be very tempted to install just the flywheel, bellhousing and then the starter

I intened to do exactly this. I didn't have much time last night, school started so I'm back to homework and work routine... my hobby is going to take even longer now.
few pics I held the starter up in place as I snapped a few photo's.. I can't really see anything nor can you in the photo, So I'll be mounting the Bell housing tonight and see what it looks like with the gear deployed...

click pic to take you to photo bucket, click next to see the other pics... it's not organised so have fun...

Edit:

Don't you mean 1970??

Yes I do, lol didn't notice that... thanks

 

[80broncoman]

First
I'd place a 3/4 inch thread but on that fork arm and weld it on there good. I'd think that would be a perminate fix.

Also Have you tryed th enguge the gears by hand? I do that and then look.
And have you looked at one of the started that went bad to see how it differs from the one you posted pics of?

 

[Frankenstang]

I'd say that's a noticeable difference on the spur gear. Given how far the other one stuck out when retracted compared to the new one makes it easy to see how it was getting chewed.

That's a good catch, I hadn't noticed that before now.

I had a fork break a long time ago in that exact same spot. Amazing yours wore a hole in it that far w/o breaking
I had the end welded back on, but eventually broke there again (prob on either side of the weld)...ended up moving the pushrod to that inner hole, which is probably a no-no, but it lived there a long time till I could replace the fork (gaulded the push rod tip a bit, but wasn't major). Better to fix it right though.

You could always change out the fulcrum on the bell to a 'wire type' if it's cheaper and easier to come by...I know the mustang parts houses stock new fulcrums, and there were some 'wire type' forks on ebay last time I looked. Usually can find a factory one in the range of $10. Think it might be a weak point in the design though because AFAIK the forks look to be stamped steel, so I would expect the divot for the push rod to be naturally a little thinner & weaker from stamping...might be worth welding some sort of plate/lg washer reinforcement on the backside of a new/used one

I bet you'll have to bolt up the bellhousing to get a really good check on the starter engagement, since the block plate only floats around until the bell sandwiches it. Still would be worth it to me to be sure the 'action is clean' as 80broncoman suggests...disable dizzy power and should be able to observe starter bumps/cranks from the tranny side hole...might hear more than you see, but should know for sure.
You're getting closer ...good luck!

 

[chad]

You're getting closer ...good luck!
Yeah, Richard - the he double L w/wrk and school. The vehicle's the important thing
F' em.

 

[Frankenstang]

You're getting closer ...good luck!
Yeah, Richard - the he double L w/wrk and school. The vehicle's the important thing
F' em.

While it may be possible I'm interpreting this wrong, first, because I don't know what it has to do with the subject at hand. Second, because it's difficult to understand someone that's decided not to use common english.

However, if you're implying my remark was sarcastic or derogatory in any way, then you obviously are mistaken. I believe Richard realizes my comments are intended to be encouraging. I'll thank you not to quote my remarks with your own interpretation applied. Please speak for yourself, and the implied vulgar response is unwelcomed.

EDIT: Sorry for the diversion from topic here Richard.

 

[chad]

diversion from topic here Richard.
Yes, sorry. No diversion intended, Humor does not come across cyberspace well.
I apologies, meant to be a supportive comment. Any clarification tendered would tend to make matters worse.
Pardon me.