All Small Six Stock 200CID Timing Curve

[Valleri66]

Hi All,

I've been searching around a bit and haven't found specifically what I'm looking for related to the stock timing curve for the 200 CID.
Engine Specs are essentially stock for me and specifically are:

• 1966 200 CID
• Adjustable Rocker Arms (New Clay Smith Lifters and Chrome Moly Pushrods)
• C4 Automatic (2.83 Rear End)
• 1V Daytona Universal Carb
• Progression Ignition HEI with the ability to adjust timing via a table. (Yeah, I'm going to be the Guinea Pig)

What are the 'basics' or 'starting point' for where timing should be for:

• Maximum RPM-based Advance (Degrees)
• 'All-in' RPM
• Maximum Vaccum Advance (Degrees)
• Minimum Vaccum Advance at (Kpa/inHg)
• Maximum Vaccum Advance at (Kpa/inHg)
• Rev Limit

What I have found from a high level, based on RPM is:
500-550 [Idle - Automatic] - 12* (From Shop Manual)
1,200-1,600 - 20*
2,600-3,000 - 32*

I would ideally like to see what someone has for a timing table showing idle, tip-in, Cruise, and WOT.
I've attached what I've plugged in for the Table Generator, its output as a timing table, and an annotation of the major points of timing per Progression Ignitions 'Tuning Guide' for reference.

The objective at this stage is driveability, with better than the stock performance from the improved carb and spark control/power.

I understand that every engine is different, so the primary discussion here is - all things equal - what is the stock curve?

Appreciate the collective experience!

 

[cr_bobcat]

If you work your way down through this old thread of mine, you'll find a suggested base timing. This should get you started!

Mapping Timing Events

So I've finally gotten around to mapping the timing events of this new HEI style distributor. This morning I just measured with the vacuum can connected. Tomorrow morning I will measure with it disconnected and the hose plugged. I started at about 700 RPM as this was about as low as I could...

www.fordsix.com

 

[xctasy]

Add More initial , reduce the total to 32-34 , slow it down to all in by 2800 , limit vac adv to 8-10 crank degrees , dont let it start till a min of 10- 12 inches , This assumes a pump gas combo with no more than 9.5-1 and 93 octane

At Fordsix.com, both Bill the Distrubtor man wsa111 billythedistributorman@live.com


(and especially FalconSedanDelivery,

a Supercharged FE engine and Duraspark ignition guru from Freeburg Pa)...these are the guys to chat with.

the ignition is what makes a good Ford in line Six stand up. If it likes 28 degree initial timing, then don't be afraid to see if it likes less or a little more.

Before you fiddle with the air fuel ratios, grab a timing light, and re-baseline again the advance curve stuff like cr_bobcat did.

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72349&p=555788#p555788

#7 by cr_bobcat » Fri Aug 15, 2014

 

[xctasy]

Roath from New Zealand posted the stock 200 -250 ignition curve, but the pictures are gone from FordSix since the last revision, and I've spent 20 minutes already trying to find them.

 

[wsa111]

Roath from New Zealand posted the stock 200 -250 ignition curve, but the pictures are gone from FordSix since the last revision, and I've spent 20 minutes already trying to find them.

With 93 octane you can do more than the above. There are so many variables that with out all the specs you are just guessing.
I have seen many examples of guys running 93 octane & the engine was over octaned.
It ran better with 90 octane.

 

[Valleri66]

Hey All; thanks for the responses! I'm in the midst of playing around with timing / advance / and gas and will let you know how things go!

 

[bubba22349]

Long time ago now I remember seeing the timing specs for a small six engine that was a special police version (interceptor?). I haven't been able to find things back again lately though in doing my searches.

 

[cr_bobcat]

Is this kind of in the ballpark you were recalling Bubba?

Police Interceptor Timing Reference

 

[bubba22349]

Thank you cr bobcat' yes that's the exact info by Hearte3 (in the 5th post down) only I though it also had a timing map of advance degrees at the measured RPM's. Good info for setting up one of the stock 200 / 250 DuraSpark II Distribitors however probally not going to be of much help for OP in programming of his new Progressive Ignistions distribitor. I have been curious of these P. I. Distributor since I first heard about of them back in winter or spring of 2020. Best of luck on the programing.

 

[cr_bobcat]

Thank you cr bobcat' yes that's the exact info by Hearte3 (in the 5th post down) only I though it also had a timing map of advance degrees at the measured RPM's. Good info for setting up one of the stock 200 / 250 DuraSpark II Distribitors however probally not going to be of much help for OP in programming of his new Progressive Ignistions distribitor. I have been curious of these P. I. Distributor since I first heard about of them back in winter or spring of 2020. Best of luck on the programing.

I stopped looking when I found that post. If nothing else it maybe helps with more keywords to use in a search to find additional info.

 

[bubba22349]

I don't know I use to be able to search and find things fast here on our site, but not lately yes probably take some time learning to see what search words or combs of words works.

 

[65coupei6]

Just watched Engine Maters fuel episode. They proved that on a dyno engine there is no difference from California 87 or 91 Octane. They even used 110, 116 and E85.

It was pretty interesting. So basically time it until it pings, back off, drive and be happy.

 

[chad]

not when ya got puters ta play wid, that makes happy too...

 

[xctasy]

82 through 86 351W Cop car PI Panthers had them on the intake manifold, Piezo electric knock sensors.

With EECIII, the Feedback Variable Venturi 2-bbl VV7200carb, it was just a trigger to savagely cut advance.

From 1985 onwards, the F trucks when Bank fire EFi came out on the 5.0, it was on the block, and it had a similar filter. Just a locked in drop to 10 degrees advance, savage cut.

On the LS Chev's, it was depth defined by two piezo's, and octane variability is targeted by a fuel and ignition ramp that is dynamic.

Reason for no hp or knock change is that Often, the 6 week octane of 87 and 91 is the same. Aromatics bleed off fast, and in the USA, the percentage of total aromatics is restricted.

Higher octane fuels often reduce power of turbocharged vehicles in most instances.

On Cleveland based 302C, 351C 2V's, 351C 4v's, 351M's and 400's, these highly octane sensitive engines can gain many horsepower by reducing advance or increasing octane. The log head 200 is the same.

The Load-O-Matic is an all-time disaster ignition system, and the 1-bbl, the worst for restricting fuel supply to one leg of the log head. As is the under carb heating and the cylinder 3 and 4 exhaust Siamese port. That's a technical 5 point octane requirement needed right there.

You have to look overseas Ford sixes to get solutions and not to the USA; it wasn't until the 62-66 and especially 1968 Clean Air California regs forced Ford to clean up the 170/200 Fords that a proper Autolite ignition system was added. Then, increased emissions helped the Ford 3.3 to end up as powerful in 1983 as it was in 1965. For the Califonia Autolite equiped 1966-1968, the spark curve was a copy of the Australian Lucas or Bosch distributor for 170/200 and 250 Fords Roath copied. The Australian Ford Forum guys might have it somewhere.

Everything has been revamped here, in all, it's positive for sure. We just have to learn to prompt the search engine somehow. We'll get there if we work together!

 

[chad]

"...We'll get there if we work together!..."
count me out. I aint wrkin on no timin map, 's Y I called U over here.
I avoid puters as much as I can ina car. The car is 2 get away frm them
as I'm on 'em all day for wrk...Whipee! freedom! I use my eyes, ears, nose etc.
I DO think of puttin a bung/O2/gauge on - but that's not for a long time coming~