Thinking about Installing the cam? (long....very long)

[LameHoof65]

This kind of worries me since I have never done this before, but my anticipation is about to overcome the worry. I have a pretty good idea on how it is done and I have read quite a bit on the methods with and with out the head on the block. I have seen a few cams installed in the past but like everybody else I was more interested in how it was going to sound and perform than following the process. Here is what I have:

1) Moroso 11" degree wheel
2) 1" dial indicator
3) coat hangar (sophisticated & precision machined) hangar out of my wifes closet
4) Head and oil pan off
5) Old lifters still in the engine
6) Cam lube
7) Pulley Puller (if necessary)

Now here is where I am a bit shaky on the topic.... there are two processes involved in doing a complete cam degree. To get the cam at approximately 10* BTDC---is the best to ensure firing on initial startup. This involves first lining up your old cam and crank at TDC before pulling the sprockets. Then once lined up at TDC pull the crank and cam sprockets and remove chain. Now put the cam pulley back on and slowly rotate the cam out. Once the cam is out take off the cam sprocket and put it on the new cam. Lube up all the lobes and bearings on new cam and rotate it in with the cam sprocket.

Now this is where I run into problems: 1) install the crank sprocket at 0* with chain on cam sprocket and line up the points as if they are both set at TDC as the old cam?---How do you know that the sprocket and the cam are in fact in position of TDC (ie., both valves closed) and consistant with the crank? Does the cam sprocket keyway as lined up with the TDC 0* and keyway make it impossible to not have the lobes on the cam in the right place? All this is the initial process as I see it.

Once TDC is found with the cam and crank lined up....then the next process is to stab the distributor....(in my case the head is off and I probably won't actually put the distributor in until the head is back from the machinist and the head is on.) but for the purpose of clarification (lets say I have installed my head and I am now ready to stab my distributor---

I line the rotor on the distributor to the number 1 wire location and after lubing the gear put it in the block and slide it into the cam gear. (now in my case with the head on--before I do this I will rotate the oil pump with an old distributor shaft without the gearing, before I actually put in the distributor).

Once all of the above is complete I can then do the second part or the second process of the operation and check for valve lift using a 1" dial indicator on the retainer tops and see if the cam is actually opening and closing the intake and exhaust as the cam specs indicate....I know I could do this after setting the cam and crank at TDC with the head off by using a pushrod, dial indicator and a solid lifter....right.

Okay once the head is on, the cam specs checked and fuel lines, carb and ignition setup is hooked up--now I can set the advance for somewhere to BTDC say around 10* by slight rotation of distibutor once the car starts up---my question is how do you do that before the thing fires?

Also, I have heard of significant retarding on these engines and having to set 28* advance in some cases---now I am new at this and this may sound stupid---but to me that sounds weird...I know clay smith cams unlike say comp cams are not set at 4* advance to start with but man 28*'s to get your timing right.....

Oh, and the cam spec card that Mike sent me is for 1.6 rocker arm and I have the 1.5 adjustable---this is gonna sound stupid but how do you adjust the figures to less lift---I know there is a formula the 1.6 or in my case the 1.5 x's something or another but you have to have some exact numbers here don't you to calculate you valve opening and closing--which I see as the second and more comprerhensive part of degreeing the cam.

 

[WhitePony]

Darwin, Call me at 833-4775. I have a video to get to you showing the complete degree proccess from the guy who designed our cams. I can bring it to you up your way.

 

[wsa111]

Darwin, I see you have all the right tools.

Do not put the distributor in yet, wait till you get the head on then put a hex shaft into the oil pump so you can prime the engine with oil pressure before you put in the distributor & start it.

When you degree the camshaft you do it from the lifter so rocker arm ratio does not effect the readings on the cam card.

In reality yes the 1.6 rockers will show more duration @ .050 than 1.5 rockers, but the camshaft still gets degreed in from the lifter readings.

With a clay smith camshaft depending on you transmission,rear end ratio I would advance the camshaft from 2-4 degrees advance for more low end power for street use. William

 

[Anonymous]

this is where you want to mak sure everythings is right.
first you get your degree wheel on the crank and make sure that it cannot move( slip any little bit rotational wise). i recommend having a priming shaft for your oil pump made from an old distributor. drive it with your1/2 drill. start with everything well moly-luned. best to try to limit rotations to a minimum as a general rule
it is easier if you only have number 1 piston and rod installed. make sure you agree with the TDC reference mar and that it is repeating for you. you can do this with a stop that stops the piston just short of TDC. first go in one direction then back it around in the other direction. split the distance between the to marks is exactly TDC.
next you check the cam lobe profle. you can set it initially by the dots but most factory type gear sets that are supplied now ar smog retarded something like 7degrees with the dots alined. when checking the cam profile you always rotate in the same direction of operstion never in reverse due to possible chain slack. the idea is to find the lobe center but all readings are take at the original TDC stationary mark. you can do it without the head if you can jury rig you dial indicator to read off the top of a lifter or even a oush rod on top a lifter but you got to make sure there is consistent light force keepin everything together so there is no slack.
i will turn the it so i know where the heal of the cam is reading zero on the #1 intake lifter. you turn it slowly in the normal direction of rotation until the dial indicator starts to rise. a little make a mark on the degree wheel. turn it until you get to a rise of .050and make a mark on the deree wheel. coninue very slowly in the same direction until your dial goes back to .050 and make a marks on the degree wheel. continue on until the dial indicator just returns to zero make a mark. if none of your setup moved on you,( which rarely happens to me on the first couple trys.) you know know wher zero(TDC) is relative to intake lobe center. i like to repeat it.
you can do it without the priming pump but if you get to turning it around too many times then your molylube protection is diminishing. you can always relube the journals by popping the rod and main caps but that is such a clean-clean operation it is best to avoid. with a priming pump you can sticp th oil pan on with a little oil and twist the pump from the top till you have good pressure each time before turning and /or any starting attempts.

you can also check the #1 exhaust lobe similar, but always turning in the same direction. half way between the two lobes should be TDC. if you cam is a symmetrical 112/112. this should prove out by this method. the lift wont agree with your cam spec but the centers will be dead on.
if it recommended that your cam be installed 4 degrees advanced then you want the intake lobe to start opening sooner when rotating in the correct direction so the intake center point mark should be at 116 away from the TDC mark and the the exuast lobe will com up at 108 after passing TDC. with the factory type new cam gears( 7degrees off) you will need to turn the cam and chain 1 tooth only at the CRANK sprocket. or retard the crank one CRANK tooth realtive to the cam and chain.
As I recall, with the number of crank teeth this worked out real close. each tooth being 11 degrees. The mystrey is you do not know what you get when you by your replacement parts. you get either zero or 7 degrees. if you use srock replacement parts it most likely will be 7 degrees. if you get some verified high peformance parts you might be able to skip all this. but every now and then even there the mark can be bogus. if you got time and money into good parts it could cost you a head or even a crank. but worse if you built youe hotrod engine with 7 degrees built in retard.
it is hard to understand all this writing. the tape helps if you have it and the same stuff and method they are using. you can go turn by turn and cant go wrong. always recheck always go excess on the lube aspect
just my two cents

 

[wsa111]

Darwin, do not use a stock timing chain & gears they are junk & will stretch in several thousand miles.

Spend the $ and get a full roller from Mike www.fordsixparts.com

After you get the quality timing chain & gears use the 4 degree advance on the crank pulley & check your installation from the .050 intake & closing or the intake centerline method. I don't know what camshaft you are using but this should put you where you need to be. William

 

[LameHoof65]

I have the cam, dble roller timing chain, 1.5 adjust. Rocker arm, pushrods and valves, teflon seals and lifters, all from Mike. Retainers are the 4.0v6 and the springs are the 351 windsor exh. recommended in the fordsix performance handbook. I can't put the head and stuff on 'til I find someone who can do the head-work I need.

You mean put the crank sprocket on the 4* key way and line it up with the cam key way for TDC?

 

[addo]

You know that funny thing that happens when you say a word over and over and over until it seems somehow, wrong? It can be a bit the same way with setting the cam.

The timing set should have destructions that indicate how you go about choosing any position to set it. They (those instructions) are your starting point. Combine them with William's suggestion to physically advance the cam 4°.

Now, check where the cam's sitting at. If the figures are calculated at 50 thou for a 1.6 rocker ratio, you look for a different lift. That new amount is 15/16×0.050, or 47 thou.

Hope this helps clear the air!