Timing mark not at TDC on scale

sasktrini

Well-known member
In my troubles with my 170 (in a '64 Econoline), I found that the timing mark on the pulley was out of sync with the scale when I cranked the #1 piston to TDC (almost a quarter turn of the crank off). I've heard these engines may have a tendancy for the pulley or balancer to slip... how is that? Does the key break or fall out or something? Or does the keyway in the pulley have a tendency to wear?

Anyone have a pic describing how this is?

Thanx in advance,

Corey
 
Hmm... I never looked close enough at it... Thanx!

I was fussing with so many other things trying to fire my van up. What's the fix? Chilton's doesn't even touch this problem.

gtm1086":28xtyfg2 said:
The balancer has a rubber hub that will some times slip over the years,
 
You can place a mark on the balancer that does line up with the timing scale and then set the timing as you desire. However, the next time you go to check the timing, the outer ring of the balancer may have slipped again. So the real fix is to by a new balancer or a rebuilt one. Damper Dudes or Damper Doc in California offer rebuilt hubs. Mike at Classic Inlines offers a new balancer.
Doug
 
The balancer slipping is a very common problem. Use the manual method to find TDC with a probe or your finger or a dummy spark plug as described on other threads here. Once you have that, make a mark on the outside hub with a white marker and you are good to go.
 
My last attempt led me down ludwig's instruction, so I feel reassured I am on the right track.

Now I'm not certain if it applies... My marks are right on the crank pulley, and I'm not sure how the assembly comes together. I must have a balancer and a pulley, right? And if the balancer slipped, it must have brought the pulley with it?

Or is this a completely different can o worms having the mark on the pulley?
 
The balancer and pulley are one and the same. There's a rubber ring between the inner and outer portions of the pulley.
 
There's a metal inner hub that goes on the crank snout, and an outer metal ring / pulley with the timing mark on it. Between the two pieces of metal is a layer of rubber that's injected while molten, then cools to bond the two pieces together (the rubber allows for vibration absorbing)

Over time, the rubber deteriorates and separates from either or both pieces of metal, allowing the outer ring to "walk" around the inner piece. And in extreme instances, the outer hub can walk clear off the crank, then start flying around the front of the engine - not good!

If it's moved once, it'll move again. You need a new or rebuilt balancer, period.
 
Back on this again... an update. After trailering the van home, and finally getting the timing close enough to get the engine to run again, I bought a puller and finally removed the crankshaft pulley, so I can take it to my parts guy to ensure he can order me the proper replacement.

The purpose is to replace it with a pulley where the timing mark has not slipped out of position, thus I can nail down the timing precisely. Up until now, I couldn't visualize what the pulley failure would look lilke, and believe it would be helpful to others now dabbling in the early world, identifying 45 year old parts suffering stealthful deterioration. Hopefully soon, I'll have a good 170!


PB060001a.jpg


PB060002a.jpg


Here's the pics... FYI, there is a thin band of rubber or nylon (?) that's supposed to be tightly sandwiched between the hub and the pulley ring, just inside the red ring I added. Notice the chunks missing from it, the relocated timing mark, and the grinding on the back of the pulley where the puller bolts go... there was also a considerable groove from the timing cover seal, so I guess I can finish with the rest of the gasket kit I bought in the summer!

When that rubber ring dries out, the pulley ring can just slip around the hub (I can't do it with my hands, but...). Eventually, the pulley ring slips right off the hub, and chunks of metal become part of the catastrophic failure.

I left the crank pulley with my parts guy, and I'll get a new one from him locally on payday... costing me $175, but I guess I'd have to deal with shipping costs otherwise. Should be able to dial in the timing properly with no guesswork!
 
$175?!? You could get a rebuilt one from Damper Dudes for $75.
 
Yeah, I know I could get it cheaper, plus the core refund... but this one is local (big difference when you live in a small city in Canada).

My parts guy here is really great... sees me a few time a year for the last few, but remembers my name, voice on the phone, all the vehicles I've worked on in that time (on my fourth)... and no shipping hassles. Heck, I took him my pulley, and he took it on his own time for a visual comparison from his supplier just to confirm that it was a match... sometimes I get great deals, always get great service. Got my Felpro Engine Gasket set from him a few months back with no cash down... so on Friday (payday and day off), I'll have a pulley and my engine back together, timing dialed in, and a sweet Falcon Six 170 finally!
 
And that's the way it's supposed to work from front to back. Really. Good story. That's why we're here too.
 
Somehow I wonder if gold may be cheaper! I'll keep you posted. We got our first snow today, so I expect the reinstallation will be a little frosty. I pulled my timing gearset while I was at it... seems to be a lot of play in the chain... with one side taut, the top length deflected about 3/4". Frozen fingertips, light wallet, warm beating heart in my Econoline and in my chest!
 
no matter how bad yours is, someone always had a worse one, this one was mine


page62":2kubcwv4 said:
The balancer and pulley are one and the same. There's a rubber ring between the inner and outer portions of the pulley.
not always
on mine there was an outer pulley, and the inner pulley held the balancer ring
 
Wow! I guess I'm lucky I messed with my timing, or I might have never known how bad it was... I hear it's BAD NEWS when these break like that!

Just called my guy... got the pulley, timing chain set and gaskets for pickup first thing Friday... WOO HOO!!!

Asa":1lmhf9du said:
no matter how bad yours is, someone always had a worse one, this one was mine
 
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