Triple SU-1V carbs

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The picture shown on the Fordsix parts web site in the AZ Coupe's engine section. Is the intake manifold something being developed or is this that is available or a manifold from another vehicle that has been modified. It looks like this is on an Aus 250 2V head. Does anybody have any info on this application.
 
I don't know about the Ford application, but I can tell you that the SU constant-velocity carb is a very accurate / efficient carb. Used to have twin SUs on an MGB, and drove a triple-SU Triumph quite a bit. Only two "downsides" I can think of - not really downsides, just differences that take getting used to.

1. You have to keep oil in the dampers (on top of the carbs). After awhile, the idea of 'checking the oil in your carbs' doesn't seem so strange anymore.
2. They don't have accelerator pumps, so when you stomp on the gas, that initial *immediate* response isn't there. You'll move out smartly, but it's a little more like an electric motor, if that makes sense.

Apart from that, they're really good carbs. btw, the Harley aftermarket guys use them and have a lot of speed/tuning parts.
 
Thanks for your reply. I have heard both good and bad about these carb and am very interested in this type of setup..

I'm really tring to find out about the intake manifolds that are shown in the picture. Do they exist for a Ford AUS 250 2V head? Are these a mock up of what may exist? Are they a modification of another manifold?
 
The manifolds were produced by Lynx in Australia and fit the OZ250-2V heads, but are no longer in production. There are a few floating around in OZ at swap meets, but they are expensive, if you happen to find one. To my knowledge, they usually go for about $300-$350 (or more) since they are fairly rare. Linkage is still available new, but not sure about the prices. Carbs are easy to come by. The complete setup (including the head) sells for $1200-1500 if and when they pop up. As far as I know, only three have made it over to the USA.

I have talked to Lynx about making more and they will do so if ordered in quantity. I plan to have several made up, as well as the tripple Webber intakes, to offer for use with the new FSPP aluminum heads (when they're ready). :wink:

trips%20side%20-%20cropped.jpg


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trips%20installed.jpg
 
Thanks for the pictures and info. It look less complicated than I thought it might. Have you ever considered have it machined from billet stock. The first one would be the most expensive, but once the programing was done it should com down in price. Do you have any pictures of the other side so i could see the porting.
 
We thought about billet, but if I order them in a reasonable quantity I can get them cheaper than what the billet would cost. I'll see if I can take a few more pics for you in the next couple days.
 
The SU carbs are very accurate and reliable, but do take a little perseverance to set up if spring and needle info is not available for the particular engine/carb combination.

They do not like heat soak, or high pressure pumps.

Both Lynx and Redline have made triple SU manifolds in the past for the 2V and cross flow but do not produce them presently. Lynx have indicated they may do a run if interest by historic racers continues however they were unable to say when this might happen.

http://www.lynxcorp.com.au/main.php?idx=disposals#LYNX

http://www.redlineauto.com.au/manifold.html#REDLINE 6Cyl


These very rarely come up second hand and command a high price. Perhaps this thread is worth following though it is a little dated.

http://www.fastlane.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=73&whichpage=2

Although triples are often used on six cylinder engines they will never run smooth as twin carbs. This because the firing cycles (and hence the induction periods) are not evenly spaced by the cylinders fed from the front and rear carbs; and there will necessarily be mixture variations between cylinders 1 & 2 and also between 5 & 6.

Twin carbs avoid this shortcoming because there is even spaced timing in the 1 & 2 & 3 group, and also in the 4 & 5 & 6 group.
 
What is a reasonable quantity? 10,50,100
What was the billet version going to cost roughly?
How about some aluminum tubing and plate stock. Are you any good at welding aluminum or should I buy the aluminum kit for my wire feed and start practicing?
 
If your really serious, get in touch with me via PM. As I can propably hook you up with a setup.
 
I have only ever seen LYNX manifolds to fit SUs to the 2V. All the Redline parts were for the crossflow motors.

Sorry to say that LYNX are no longer the giant they once were. In the '70s and '70s, they were almost a one-stop-shop with good gear and in-house machining facilities, plus accommodating types who knew their stuff. Now, they are basically an onseller of a few specialised parts and old stock. Prices aren't too user-friendly and their minimum order criteria is plain rude. (Sound like a certain company in the US?) Nobody else will run a copy as there is still concern over infringement.

One real concern on the sixes is (especially in the earlier cars) heat buildup. You need to run separate float bowl carbs ideally (like HS series, not HIF).

On the good side, a simple carb that can never be too big! :D

Regards, Adam.
 
Mike,
I love that set up, I would Die to have one..
Do you have a lay away plan??? :wink:
lets see $1500 at $250 a month would only take me 6 months....
Guess I'll have to either win the lotto or get a second job...

Nathan
 
Both Lynx and Redline have made triple SU manifolds in the past for the 2V and cross flow but do not produce them presently. Lynx have indicated they may do a run if interest by historic racers continues however they were unable to say when this might happen.

addo":9oqyp0iq said:
I have only ever seen LYNX manifolds to fit SUs to the 2V. All the Redline parts were for the crossflow motors. .

I have been chasing a SU manifold so called both companies. Neither had them in stock but each stated that they had made 3xSU manifolds for both head types. Perhaps these have been out of production so long that their own sales staff have lost track of what they made!
 
Redline are pretty accommodating, and I think they may still cast in Sydney. There are places here who do short runs; this is how Geoff Dellow gets his conversion bellhousings made up more or less two or three at a time.

There is the Matilda foundry in Qld who will do 50 pieces a pop, maybe less with persuasion, and the joint in Melbourne who cast CHI heads and alloy big Healey blocks. So, the raw facilities still exist; we just need a pattern!

Returning to topic - I have truly never seen a Redline pre-crossflow manifold, this is not vanity speaking, nor have I ever heard of one before. As a shutterbug I do look for weird stuff like that. :lol:

Cheers, Adam.
 
There are 4 things stopping cheap and regular build-ups of those SU intake manifolds like they didn in the 70's.

Health, Safety, Environment and resultant cost of Over Heads. The west in general, and Australia and America in particualr, make you show a social conscience with your company cheque book.

In the developong nations like China, Tiwan and Korea, they can potentially sleep under the production line and expect less than 3 bowls of rice a day and still pay nothing for the Health, Safety, Environment and resultant cost of Over Heads.

Basically, an Aussie market of 23 million people has a focus on maybee less than 40 potential customers per year. In America, there are only about 50 2V heads (23 were noted in a sumary of a 12 month post back in 2003), and my guesstimate is that less than 1 in 10 in America want to pay for the intendent cost SU intake manifolds, carb set up, and the basic work involved. A reality of the economics of doing sixes.


SU carbs of the later HIF 38S, HIF 44, HIF 6 and HIF 7 type are simply the best carb you can buy for low end torque from 1500 to 3500 rpm, and have a heat adjustment strip which allows for the heat soak. Stock, they flow between 175 cfm and 240 cfm at 1.5" Hg, respectively. Three of them are enough to give 215 hp on a modified 200 I6, and the Aussie lads with 202 Holden L6's have seen well over 245 hp with a set of junk carbs.

In the old days before oxygen sensors, they were hard to set-up because of heat soak and needle and jet variations. These days, they are easier to tune than ever before. They have superior low speed characteristics becasue the spring and dashpot set-up produces its own defacto acclerator pump. There is a delay as the dashpot opens, which ricens the air/fuel ratio. The SU carb in fact has a better accelerator pump than any carb or EFI system ever made, and its proven when they are placed on dyno tests time and time again. EFI systems and Weber tripple carbs are constrained by packaging limits, which cause compromses with intake runner volume and packaging in our X-sheel Falcons, Mustangs, Mavericks, Granada and Cometes etc. SU's work well with all types of intake designs, Redline, Lynx, Blattman, whatever you find, it'll work perfectly.

As long as you run a good Redline or Lynx linkage, and a fuel regulator to limit pressure to 3.5 psi maximum, use the recomemded jets and dashpot springs, there is no reason why you'd ever be sorry for running them. And old ladies and tough guys go weak at the knees when you open the hood, or the throttle!
 
It is interesting talking to people who poo-poo the SUs as being difficult to set up and tune. When asked what particular trouble they had, the response is invariably along the lines of "I have never used them myself, but was told by a person who had a friend who had a cousin who was told by a mechanic they are no good".

Yes they are a little different from most carbs, yes you have to learn the routine. I really believe the most important tool is a sound understanding of how they function, everything else falls into place then. The purpose of the oil in the dashpot is an obvious example, with many people believing it is just to stop piston flutter at low revs.

No machinery is perfect, and they do have a couple of quirks. Heat soak can be a frustrating problem, not while the engine is running but restarting after a 10 minute stop on a hot day can be a pain if the appropriate precautions are not followed on a non cross flow engine. Also when using triples on a six cylinder it is impossible to have spot-on mixture between 1&2 and 5&6, so it is wise to run them a little rich when hammered hard for long periods.

I had been looking out for a used triple SU to cross flow manifold and have yet to see one come up. (This is surprising because every week at least one manifold complete with carbs comes up for a red motor.) After no luck on the hunt for a used piece I called Redline and Lynx also without success. I will now be fabricating my own, but being a cheapskate will take the lazy way out and modify a throttle body manifold to take two 2" SU. It will not have the eye appeal of the triple but functionally will be fine, though the tracts will be a little longer than I would like.

Live on Skinners Union!
 
If you want a Triple SU carb for an alloy head, then grab the EFI intake, and add three transition pieces made of 40 mm internal diameter pipe in a 90 degree bend. You can specify radius on these, and a 100 mm radius will be close enough . You can get this from a muffler shop. Then weld a four bolt SU pattern on as a 6 mm steel cleat , and drill a 45 mm hole into it.

Rake the SU at a 5 degree angle.


Who needs an alloy casting? One BSP 1/4" union on each of the three branches to balance pressure, and then a Redline or Lynx linkage.
 
Many (OK, some, like my MGC) of the low volume English cars fabricate manifolds for non-factory applications of 3 SU's. When and if i ever get around to putting together to 200 out of my Maverick I'd do this in a minute to the log head- to constant depression aspect means you'll hardly be overcarbed.

Burlen is still producing SU's, and the Hitatchi replicas used on early 240Z's (not the tuna cans) are still rebuildable. Curato on the east coast, Z therapy in Oregon, and others provide parts.
 
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