Turbo engine setup

[tjnavyblue]

Hi!

I havent posted much but I've been lurking for awhile. It's pretty rare to find a forum so clean and informational - props to all of you. I spend way too much time in the archives.

My 68 mustang has a 200/3 speed combo that is on it's last leg, so instead of springing for the blasphemous 302 here's my plan. Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

Engine: 250 or big bell 200. Right now I just want the big bellhousing for a T5.

Transmission: T5 (I've already got the third pedal, and my wife is good with a clutch). The three speed just ain't tough enough.

Turbo: T4/S3-T4/O .58 unit. I want close to instant spool, and I stole this combo from Howards post: http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28140 . The numbers on this turbo seem similar to a Buick GN T3 so I may look for one of those as an alternative.

Carb:Holley 350 cfm. From what I've read a simple blow through setup will work fine with proper tuning (thanks Does10's).

Head: Hopefully the new aluminum one if I can afford it - what is the final cost anyway, with intake and studs and all? $1800?

Bottom end: All stock. I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, turbo power is not as hard on bottom ends as NA power. Linc 200's post gives me confidence.

Exhaust: Stock manifold with J pipe.

Cam: Stock (or very mild)

PSI: Maybe a max of 10 psi? I realize with the higher flow of this setup, 10 psi will relatively be alot of boost. I want to run on pump gas. Help me here as I am new to this, and I haven't read any turbo numbers with the new aluminum head.

Intercooler: Yes - simple air to air.

MPG: 22 on the hwy.

Rear: I'm running 8" with 3.50's and will probably leave it that way.

And here's what I'm thinking: I'll have $3,500 into this motor, and it'll be putting out as much or more torque than a 302 could with the same amount invested (maybe 350 - 400 ft.lbs, if I've done the math right). It will be unbeatable in real life racing - the 150 feet between the intersections of 5th and 6th. And with a stock cam, my wife can drive it to work without a problem (besides maybe a speeding ticket).

Show me the holes in my planning. I'm not a newbie with engines, but I am with turbos.

 

[Does10s]

tjnavyblue,
Sounds about right to me! I'm not familiar with that turbo but the turbine A/R of .58 is great for a street motor. Especially if you go with the smaller 200. We found that the .58 housing is a resriction at higher RPMs (>5800rpm) with a 250.
10lbs. of boost is reasonable with pump gas. But no matter what you'll need to take care of fuel and timing. I didn't see any fuel/timing related components in your list.
Go with an elec. pump, boost referenced fuel pressure regulator, and a timing retard or at least a timing "restrictor". There are a couple of ways to do this. PM me if you like and I'll explain.
Other than that give it a try and have fun!
Later,
Will

 

[LaGrasta]

Sounds like an awesome build. I hope you keep us posted as it will be interesting to follow along. Where are you located?

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

what T5 are you looking at?

BTW you can get a plate to run a T5 behind a 3 speed manual bell (what I am many are using)

 

[tjnavyblue]

Thanks - it'll be fun to see it come together.

I don't plan on seeing much over 5,500 rpm, so I'm thinking the .58 will boost well for what I need. I guess I could always swap it out if it chokes to much.

Does10's - any idea what this setup would do in the 1/4? I was thinking 14's should be possible with a good tune and consistent shifts (easier said than done). I'll send a PM when I get to ordering the fuel/timing stuff.

Not sure on the T5, but I was thinking World Class. It just needs to be moderately worked over to handle the torque. I haven't heard of the plate though, tell me more!

 

[wallaka]

Well, Linc did a 13.58 with a 2.37 60 foot time. Get the 60-foot down, and that's in the 12's.

 

[hasa68mustang]

Well, Linc did a 13.58 with a 2.37 60 foot time. Get the 60-foot down, and that's in the 12's.

lol linc was also running nucken futs amounts of boost. on not pump gas.

 

[Bort62]

lol linc was also running nucken futs amounts of boost. on not pump gas.

hahahahahaa

 

[tjnavyblue]

Actually, if I have twice the volumetric effeciency (VE), I should be able to have half the PSI and achieve the same power levels on the same basic short block. So if the aluminum head and intake/350 Holley flow twice as good as the stock log head and 1 barrel, I should be able to run 10 psi and achieve the same power levels as Linc on 20 psi.

Yep - there's other factors involved, but I think that's the basic idea behind improving flow on a turbo engine. You could boost an engine to 100 psi with little gain if you have a straw for an intake.

 

[wallaka]

Actually, if I have twice the volumetric effeciency (VE), I should be able to have half the PSI and achieve the same power levels on the same basic short block. So if the aluminum head and intake/350 Holley flow twice as good as the stock log head and 1 barrel, I should be able to run 10 psi and achieve the same power levels as Linc on 20 psi.

Yep - there's other factors involved, but I think that's the basic idea behind improving flow on a turbo engine. You could boost an engine to 100 psi with little gain if you have a straw for an intake.

True. "Boost" levels are pretty meaningless compared between different engines, since they are mostly a measure of an engine's pumping inefficiency.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep - there's other factors involved, but I think that's the basic idea behind improving flow on a turbo engine. You could boost an engine to 100 psi with little gain if you have a straw for an intake.

Quoted for TRUTH!

That little holley has a 1.125" venturi!!!

 

[tjnavyblue]

Well we're getting somewhere. I sprang for a Garrett TO4B off Ebay, and I just picked up a late model 200 (which I will need some help identifying - block says D8BE, exhaust manifold says D7BE. Any help?) which runs good and has over 150psi on all cylinders.

It is not, sadly, a big bell 200 (atleast, I don't think so).

So... What do I need to do to put a T5 behind it?

 

[hasa68mustang]

Well we're getting somewhere. I sprang for a Garrett TO4B off Ebay, and I just picked up a late model 200 (which I will need some help identifying - block says D8BE, exhaust manifold says D7BE. Any help?) which runs good and has over 150psi on all cylinders.

It is not, sadly, a big bell 200 (atleast, I don't think so).

So... What do I need to do to put a T5 behind it?

are you sure its considered a "late model" motor? I know the 80+ 200's have a head casting code of EOxx and the 79 and lower but still with the larger diameter exhaust valves have the D8 I believe yours is still one of the earlier ones with the smaller log and smaller exhaust valves.

im a retard just read your post again and saw it said that you said the d7 was the number on your exhaust manifold...

 

[Bort62]

A D8 motor is fine for a build.

You need a bell off about anything 66 + and a adapter. I've got a'66 bell w/ one of Al's original handmade adapters. works great.

 

[tjnavyblue]

I've got a bell off my 68, so that should work. How do I get ahold of "Al"? Does anyone else make the adaptors?

 

[Anonymous]

I know modern drivelines makes the adapters. They sell entire kits if you are interested as well but there are MUCH cheaper ways of doing it.

BTW, your build looks great can't wait to see the progress.

 

[pokertramp]

Seeing as I am doing a similar set up, ford drag racing, would a shot of NOS off the line help? maby a sneaky pete?

 

[Anonymous]

Seeing as I am doing a similar set up, ford drag racing, would a shot of NOS off the line help? maby a sneaky pete?

The "sneaky pete" systems are a waste of money for what you get from them.

Yes, a little shot (25-50 HP) would help a lot. It means INSTANT spool up!

I'm pretty sure the .58 turbine housing will and kelly use is a P trim.
An O trim .58 would be harder to find.
However, a T3/T4 Hybrid could be easily done and would perform well.

 

[tjnavyblue]

Hi guys,

A few questions -

Question #1: Air to air intercoolers. They have no moving parts. Most have a "bar and plate" design that looks like provides alot of cooling surface. Cheap ones are on Ebay for $100. Name brands are 2-4 times that. What's the difference?

Question #2.: In building the bottom end I'm trying to decide what to do. The 200 I bought will need a complete rebuild. If I'm going to rebuild something I want it to be a 250.

Here's one option: So I contacted uh..."S&S Remanufactured"
http://www.rebuiltautoengines.com

and they'll ship a 250 short block to my door for $799 (including shipping)and they'll take the 200 as a core. I know, I know, they're probably crappy rebuilds, but it would provide me with a bottom end that I could add different pistons too, and most of the machining work is already done. What do you guys think? Bad idea?

Question #3: This is strange and unrelated. Has anyone (racers) ever tried putting a small lightweight engine (like aBriggs/Stratton 10h.p. OHV) in a car and routing it's exhaust through the turbo manifold, so the turbo spools faster and potentially reaches higher boost levels? I'm sure it's impractical, as you'd have to put it in the passengers seat or something, but having a "donor" engine seems like an interesting idea.