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Anonymous
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I'm thinking about getting a turbo for my stang, if i did get it how would if be added to my headers, and what are your opinions about intercoolers? Thanks.
8) you would have to change your headers to a shorty style made from stainless steel, as the mild steel headers wont cope with the extra heat generated by a turbo engine. also long tube headers are generally too long to build boost efficiently. as for intercoolers, they are great for a blow through system. you could use one for a draw through system, but you would have a few problems with things like fuel economy, performance etc. not to mention that you would have what is essentially a bomb on the front of your car.
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Anonymous
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Thanks for the insite. (sp?)
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Anonymous
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I've been wrestling with turbo questions for some time. I'm taking the (hopefully) simple route with a carbureted draw-thru system based on a Buick turbo setup. No intercooler. No electronics, other than boost retard.
In my ideal world, I'd go with sequential electronic fuel injection, blow through and intercooler. But that's generally expensive, complicated and difficult to do on US 200/250 heads. However, I would like to see what could be cobbled together from existing pieces. Throttle body injection in a blow through system? Could a GM or Ford computer be hacked well enough to deal with boost, etc.?
Draw-thru carb systems don't fit well with intercoolers. The suspended fuel can puddle on the long trip through the intercooler and to the engine. I also imagine you could time throttle response with an hour glass. I imagine I'll have to look at water/alcohol injection or some similar option. There's a fair amount of discussion of these options on the draw-thru forum on Yahoo.
Blow-thru carb systems seem to work OK and can use an intercooler. There the problem usually is trying to seal the carb so the boost isn't lost and the carb circuits work properly. There are also blow-thru forums.
I just decided to quit wavering and try something.
In my ideal world, I'd go with sequential electronic fuel injection, blow through and intercooler. But that's generally expensive, complicated and difficult to do on US 200/250 heads. However, I would like to see what could be cobbled together from existing pieces. Throttle body injection in a blow through system? Could a GM or Ford computer be hacked well enough to deal with boost, etc.?
Draw-thru carb systems don't fit well with intercoolers. The suspended fuel can puddle on the long trip through the intercooler and to the engine. I also imagine you could time throttle response with an hour glass. I imagine I'll have to look at water/alcohol injection or some similar option. There's a fair amount of discussion of these options on the draw-thru forum on Yahoo.
Blow-thru carb systems seem to work OK and can use an intercooler. There the problem usually is trying to seal the carb so the boost isn't lost and the carb circuits work properly. There are also blow-thru forums.
I just decided to quit wavering and try something.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Forgot the header question. Long tube headers just won't work. They place the turbo too far from the exhaust port, too far from the intake tract and there's too much heat loss.
I think you could use heavy gauge mild steel tubing for a turbo header if you had it heat barrier coated inside and out. Stainless sometimes cracks, I'm told.
In my case, I plan to use an early cast iron manifold. By early, I mean with none of the emission attachments like on my '80 Mustang 200. Ported to match the head. "J" pipe made from mandrel bent exhaust tubing from the manifold to the turbine inlet. Mandrel bent down-pipe to a regular exhaust system, minum muffler. The manifold, "J" pipe and down-pipe will all be heat barrier coated inside and out.
I'm still collecting a few of the bits and pieces. I hope to start fabricating in the next few weeks.
I think you could use heavy gauge mild steel tubing for a turbo header if you had it heat barrier coated inside and out. Stainless sometimes cracks, I'm told.
In my case, I plan to use an early cast iron manifold. By early, I mean with none of the emission attachments like on my '80 Mustang 200. Ported to match the head. "J" pipe made from mandrel bent exhaust tubing from the manifold to the turbine inlet. Mandrel bent down-pipe to a regular exhaust system, minum muffler. The manifold, "J" pipe and down-pipe will all be heat barrier coated inside and out.
I'm still collecting a few of the bits and pieces. I hope to start fabricating in the next few weeks.
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Anonymous
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Isn't there a new turbo setup that positions the turbo farther down the car EX: underneath the rear seat and its effects are somewhat of that as an intercooler?
65,
apparentlyt my post from last night didn't get posted. That set up I think is a joke or poor/cheap engineering. I saw the post and article before. Generally a bad idea. The turbo needs hot and fast exhaust gases to work properly. With the set up you are talking about, imagine putting a turbo on the end of your exhaust tail pipe. It wouldn't go very good. The exhaust gases are too cold and too slow by that point.
Your turbo lag could me measured in seconds.
But you are right, the piping back would be like the an intercooler.
Why not use a water/air intercooler like vortech sells (I think it is them). It is a lot smaller intercooler. You still will have condensation since you be cooling down the air/fuel mix and it will be condensing and fuel will be dropping out of suspension.
Slade
apparentlyt my post from last night didn't get posted. That set up I think is a joke or poor/cheap engineering. I saw the post and article before. Generally a bad idea. The turbo needs hot and fast exhaust gases to work properly. With the set up you are talking about, imagine putting a turbo on the end of your exhaust tail pipe. It wouldn't go very good. The exhaust gases are too cold and too slow by that point.
Your turbo lag could me measured in seconds.
But you are right, the piping back would be like the an intercooler.
Why not use a water/air intercooler like vortech sells (I think it is them). It is a lot smaller intercooler. You still will have condensation since you be cooling down the air/fuel mix and it will be condensing and fuel will be dropping out of suspension.
Slade
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Anonymous
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Take a look at this photo of a Ford XF turbo header:
The XF was designed to rev up to 16,000 RPMs, so its primary tubes are short in absolute terms, but are still "full length" tubular headers tuned to a specific RPM range. If a person wants the absolute best performance from their turbo, the headers need to be full length to get it.
For racing purposes there is no substitute for the best, of course, but that doesn't necessarily hold for street engines where one is already compromising on cost, design and host of other factors.
I like Graeme's approach. The cast iron manifold will work fine for a home-grown turbo setup. It avoids the trouble and expense of having custom headers made and will work at least 90% as well.
The XF was designed to rev up to 16,000 RPMs, so its primary tubes are short in absolute terms, but are still "full length" tubular headers tuned to a specific RPM range. If a person wants the absolute best performance from their turbo, the headers need to be full length to get it.
For racing purposes there is no substitute for the best, of course, but that doesn't necessarily hold for street engines where one is already compromising on cost, design and host of other factors.
I like Graeme's approach. The cast iron manifold will work fine for a home-grown turbo setup. It avoids the trouble and expense of having custom headers made and will work at least 90% as well.
CobraSix":e9i5ct26 said:
The problem with air/water intercoolers is a cold water source. You cannot get much if any benefit from engine coolant at 180°F or more. Any cool-can type system is usable only for short periods (like at the strip) until the water becomes too hot to allow any heat transfer. like you pointed out, if he's going draw-thru it really doesn't matter since he can't use any intercooler.
Strange,
You'd need another radiator for the intercooler for the coolant. Sure, it will eventually reach an ambient temperature, but so does the air cooled as well. It's all the same thermodynamics. The water cooled intercooler just allows for a shorter distance for the charge air to travel.
Slade
You'd need another radiator for the intercooler for the coolant. Sure, it will eventually reach an ambient temperature, but so does the air cooled as well. It's all the same thermodynamics. The water cooled intercooler just allows for a shorter distance for the charge air to travel.
Slade
If you're using an air to water intercooler then cooling the secondary fluid with air, the intercooler temperature may be higher than with an air to air intercooler. The reason is that you lose efficiency at each heat transfer, so the higher efficiency of the air to water exchange may be largely offset. You also need to power the pump for the secondary side since you're using a source other than engine coolant, you'll need a pump. That's either a mechanical load from the belt drive or an electrical load. It's more work for the engine and more heat to be dissapated either way.
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