Twin turbo factory

I received my cyl. Head from Pro Max Beautiful, 1.94/1.60/73Cc. .575 spring rocker stands cut down.150 7/16 studs. 30 deg. Backcut on all valves stems undercut. Now I believe you said to remove springs and check spring height on all springs and shim if needed. OH,and watch for Turkey Overload this weekend, have a good one
 
Yes, check and record all spring heights.
Also check to see how much valve travel there is before the retainer hits the valve stem seal.

Have a great Thanksgiving.
 
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There is a strong possibility that we may be switching over to a Procharger on “Pullin 300”s engine.
That would eliminate having to wait for boost from the start as you do with a turbocharger.
I will be at the PRI show in a couple of weeks where I can talk with Procharger and all the other vendors directly to figure out what is needed to get the job done.
 
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Just for options, remember the turbine and housing determine when the turbo(s) will spool with the available exhaust flow. It can spool at idle if you set it up that way, but of-course will hit it's flow limit sooner at top-end. It's a balance. A common option is anti-lag, so it's in low boost before you go anywhere. An advantage over supers as boost hits and maintains target all the way to redline for higher average torque, while supers often start lower and build to peak. Another option for drag or pulling is instant boost with a small shot of nitrous for spooling. Whoosh, you're there. Lots of options, but choices depend on what you're doing with it and how you are applying it, for turbos or supers.
 
Just for options, remember the turbine and housing determine when the turbo(s) will spool with the available exhaust flow.
I wish you would read back further in the thread to eliminate the need for reiterating.

When running on a Pro Tree (as in this case) there is only 4 tenths of a second from the last staging light to green light.
When turbocharging we use a “bump box” to get launch boost as you bump into the last staging light.

Most sanctioning bodies do not allow the use of nitrous with turbocharging.

Even though the Procharger is a centrifugal supercharger, it will have a wide enough power band for drag racing when using a high stall torque converter.
The power band width is increased by over running the supercharger but being careful not to run it into the surge zone then clipping the boost at the target pressure with a BOV.

Looking at a turbocharger compressor map, a target pressure ratio may cover half of the engines rpm range at best.
A dedicated drag racing turbocharged engine uses A/R turbine housings at 1.00 and above.
The power bands are not that wide as a result and it also takes time and effort to build launch boost.
That’s why the “Bump Box” was created.
 
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I wish you would read back further in the thread to eliminate the need for reiterating.
Ouch. I apologize if I missed something, but a search of terms nitrous, N2O or anti-lag did not appear in this thread (except mine), so i don't quite know what I missed that you have to reiterate or link back to. You mentioned the trans brake, so I didn't. 🤷‍♂️
When running on a Pro Tree (as in this case) there is only 4 tenths of a second from the last staging light to green light.
When turbocharging we use a “bump box” to get launch boost as you bump into the last staging light.
Yes, power needs to be maximized within 0.4 seconds of staging. 👍 I disagree the purpose of the bump box, and my perspective is that you (minimally) use the trans brake and power against it to build exhaust flow and boost. You could optionally add anti-lag (air, fuel and retard) to increase the effect dramatically. The bump box then is only for moving the car under transbrake for staging with either x-millisecond cuts (bump) or PWM trans-brake modulation for slipping it forward (soft or slider staging).
Most sanctioning bodies do not allow the use of nitrous with turbocharging.
The OP said 300' sand drag. I would appear the ISDA rules allow turbo or supercharger with nitrous. No purging in staging lanes. But N2O is just one option.
Even though the Procharger is a centrifugal supercharger, it will have a wide enough power band for drag racing when using a high stall torque converter.
The power band width is increased by over running the supercharger but being careful not to run it into the surge zone then clipping the boost at the target pressure with a BOV.
The max rpm band is typically achieved with the correct compressor to fit the flow at pressure ratio, nearing surge, but not hitting choke until after the lights. Same for turbos and other things with compressor maps. Both a turbo and a super can stay in the band with a high-stall converter and cumulative gearing. While every application should use stuff that fits the application best (and that could be the super), an advantage to turbo in this short-drag scenario is the ability to hit full boost immediately, for more efficient and wider range under full boost than the super. While trickier with the super's increasing boost curve, the same can be done to some degree with the super.

The super could do somewhat similar 'quick boost' with a lazier curve over the map with over-driven boost at the low-end, but will be disadvantaged with excess and hotter air (also needing a wider map range) being bypassed at the top-end. Else, skip the bypass and let it choke. :unsure: Not picking winners here (not enough info for that), just stating the general pros and cons of each. The easy trick is using an ECM to control boost and nitrous (and optionally rev-limiting or anti-lag), so it transitions from N2O to boost at the optimal point. Instant power with a boost-level hand-off, and built into a number of ECMs.
Looking at a turbocharger compressor map, a target pressure ratio may cover half of the engines rpm range at best.
A dedicated drag racing turbocharged engine uses A/R turbine housings at 1.00 and above.
Yep, generally true, depending on 101 factors. As we can build boost a number of ways, the AR can then be sized to permit peak boost at peak rpm at reasonable EMAP. Sizing to spool for response is no longer the (or even a) parameter.
The power bands are not that wide as result and it also takes time and effort to build launch boost.
That’s why the “Bump Box” was created.
OK, but it can build full boost before launch, while the super can't, limited by the super's staged rpm. Do you have to build turbo boost? Of course, and the basis for my last post. And no, the trans brake and anti-lag were developed for building boost for launch. Bump boxes and sliders were created for staging. IMO.
 
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Yes, power needs to be maximized within 0.4 seconds of staging. 👍 I disagree the purpose of the bump box, and my perspective is that you (minimally) use the trans brake and power against it to build exhaust flow and boost. You could optionally add anti-lag (air, fuel and retard) to increase the effect dramatically. The bump box then is only for moving the car under transbrake for staging with either x-millisecond cuts (bump) or PWM trans-brake modulation for slipping it forward (soft or slider staging).
The launch boost is typically less than full boost especially when using a 3 speed transmission which will be the case here.
We launched at 12 psi and ran the boost up to 35 psi by the end of 1st gear.
That gave us enough power to transfer the car weight without overpowering the track while producing 1 second 60 foot times.

The launch boost needs to be there as the 0.4 second countdown to the green light begins because the vehicle reaction time is included within that 0.4 seconds.
The transbake is released at the start of the 0.4 second countdown so the engine torque needs to be there at that time also.
Most of the vehicle weight transfer and tire side wall wrinkling occurs during the 0.4 seconds before the car even moves.
We took high speed recordings to see how the car was reacting off the line so we could compare to and better interpret our data logging info to fine tune the suspension.

Before bumping was available, we had to foot brake into the staging lights, rev limited at 3500 and WOT to get a few lbs of boost before setting the trans brake then hoped we would reach launch boost before the transbrake released for the run.
And yes, we were using all the anti-lag measures.

The bump box allows time to develop launch boost in between the first and second staging lights, which eliminates the need to foot brake coming into the staging lights and gives you launch boost before the 0.4 second count down.
So yes, the bump staging was used to create a controlled window to develop target boost before launch and not just for the sole purpose of staging.

As far as nitrous for the OP, if there is a nitrous system on board, he would just need a 250 shot and forget about any other power adders.
The goal is to keep it simple.

Since a progressive boost curve through first gear works when using a 3 speed tranny, the turbocharger and centrifugal supercharger would have very similar results.
 
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1 second 60 ft. Time wow, most people have no idea what that means. Two places you lose a race, 0 to 60 foot and last 10ft. When you get overpowered.. in my racing world anyway.
60 ft. You lose traction or underpowered at the light
 
Two places you lose a race, 0 to 60 foot and last 10ft. When you get overpowered.. in my racing world anyway.
Yes, and that's what I thought was the goal to solve. You'll always be right if you can move the goals posts. :cautious: The maximum torque (power) the traction will sustain from 0 mph through the lights, for minimum ET. No sacrifices anywhere, as that means less torque at any point, and higher ET. ET wins. I'd hop on one foot and swing a chicken over my head if that's what it took to have the lowest ET in the crowd. I was suggesting possible and proven ways to get there without hopping or chickens. That's me. Do your thing in whatever way it makes sense in your head, that actually gets you the purse and points. :cool:
 
Yes, and that's what I thought was the goal to solve. You'll always be right if you can move the goals posts. :cautious: The maximum torque (power) the traction will sustain from 0 mph through the lights, for minimum ET. No sacrifices anywhere, as that means less torque at any point, and higher ET. ET wins.
Where was anything posted about sacrificing torque?
My entire post (#127) was about how we controlled and maximized torque while operating under a 4 tenths Pro tree.
A 1 second 60 ft, 6.82 ET at 210 mph in a 3200 lb 49 Ford is not bad.

The main discussion is about what it takes to set the vehicle up for a Pro Tree when using a turbocharger and some of the challenges we met and overcame over the years.
The Pro Tree challenge is to have target launch boost by the time you light the last staging light or else you are in trouble.
 
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I was responding to @Red rose racer, on his comment about losing at one end or the other, and how it can solve either and both. Not focusing on your comments about launch.
 
I was responding to @Red rose racer, on his comment about losing at one end or the other, and how it can solve either and both. Not focusing on your comments about launch.
Red Rose is new to turbocharging a 300 six for racing so take it easy on him.
He has been running a big block engine all his life so make the transition as easy as possible.

I didn't interpret his post the same way you did so I was surprised at your response and thinking it might have been something I posted.
 
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Thank you. Paul . My expertise, if I have any. Is over 25yrs. Sand. And dirt drags all over the state of mi. And 2 years tarmac racing , sbc modified production DMPO. DMPX. I Raced by flagging , Christmas tree and pro lite the last several years. My heroes growing up were { Ohio} George Montgomery and Stone, Woods, Cook. That’s were I come from. Think about it. Thank you Paul for being patient, I would not be doing this if not for you and this wonderful site. I’m a disabled vet . I don’t need this, I want it ,some people understand that. Started racing 1964
 
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My comments were not meant to be harsh, and just conversational, where I assumed the goals and why most are in the sport. I apologize for that, and the path you take may be very different if you're in it for different priorities of fun from satisfaction of the project, fun of participation, social aspects, etc - all reasons we race - but may take higher priority for you than the common focus end-goal priority of peak competitive performance that day. While we are competitive, we are brothers in battle.

While a project build always begins with a goals and priorities list, we skipped that here for you, and back to my poor assumption that they were "typical". Have fun, but WIN. So, in trying to avoid further assumptions, does this fit your perspective? And if so, more detail of your goals and priorities would be very helpful to shift the path into a better direction to meet your goals. Spell it out so we are all on the same page. (y)
 
I received my cyl. Head from Pro Max Beautiful, 1.94/1.60/73Cc. .575 spring rocker stands cut down.150 7/16 studs. 30 deg. Backcut on all valves stems undercut. Now I believe you said to remove springs and check spring height on all springs and shim if needed.
Did you get a chance to check the installed spring heights?
 
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I loaned my valve spring compressor to someone, have to get new one. Had all my old racing stuff and truck in garage ,need to relocate everything working on that now. Getting my 94 f250 ready for winter turn out more than I planned. Gas tank leak all rear breaklines, rear spring hanger . Next week I should be ready for full bore 300 fun
 
PSIG. Thank you for the comments I only thought comments to be constructive not critical. I have a lot on my plate some days ,who don’t
 
At post# 133, Stone,Woods,Cook and ,Ohio George Montgomery, as I Remember,both ran about 33 Willie’s coupes with Supercharged GMC I6. Gassers at about 140 mph. At that time , almost unbelievable. Late 50’s early 60’s .
 
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