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Anonymous
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I was wondering how much work is needed to upgrade from a 1v to a 2v carb on a stock 6cyl. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Anonymous
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I keep forgetting what people say about 2bbl's ...weither Autolite or Holley or Weber is better...one is easier to tune,one stays tuned...
can we pin the answers to the top for reference? PLEASE HELP!
can we pin the answers to the top for reference? PLEASE HELP!
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Anonymous
Guest
I just did this and it's super easy. I honestly can't believe I waited so long to do it.
Do a search on the boards or go to my website links http://www.albertpenello.com/mustang and there is a great article on the 2bbl conversion.
Basically, all you have to do is order the clifford adapter for your head (either the 1.5 or 1.75 intake hole), then call Tom at Stovebolt and order the Holley 5200 2bbl that's rebuilt for $65, and get his metal "plate" for $8.
The only thing you will need to do is fabricate a small "extension arm" for your linkage to attach to, but the linkage is on the correct side. Total install took me about 20 min including the fabrication of the "arm".
For the air cleaner, you'll need to get any good "drop base" air cleaner. I got a great Ford Motorsport 13" chrome drop-base new for $30. You will have to cut the 1/2 in lip off the base, so that it lays flat on the metal plate. Otherwise you will have hood clearance issue.
I should take some pictures and post them soon. But it was really quite easy.
Do a search on the boards or go to my website links http://www.albertpenello.com/mustang and there is a great article on the 2bbl conversion.
Basically, all you have to do is order the clifford adapter for your head (either the 1.5 or 1.75 intake hole), then call Tom at Stovebolt and order the Holley 5200 2bbl that's rebuilt for $65, and get his metal "plate" for $8.
The only thing you will need to do is fabricate a small "extension arm" for your linkage to attach to, but the linkage is on the correct side. Total install took me about 20 min including the fabrication of the "arm".
For the air cleaner, you'll need to get any good "drop base" air cleaner. I got a great Ford Motorsport 13" chrome drop-base new for $30. You will have to cut the 1/2 in lip off the base, so that it lays flat on the metal plate. Otherwise you will have hood clearance issue.
I should take some pictures and post them soon. But it was really quite easy.
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Anonymous
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How much better did it perform? I'm building a 170 for my Falcon now so I might as well do all I can to help it along. My other cars have a 390, 289, and a 302 so I know I'm gonna feel like I'm pulling a trailer everywhere I go.
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Anonymous
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Hey 64Galaxie,
You didn't say what year your 170 is. If your a '64 or later you can use the 68 - 73 dual advance dizzy or the DS2. Earlier 170's have a smaller dizzy drive so the switch to the later dizzy is complicated by a requirement to overbore the drive hole. This is important because the 2V carbs. we typically use (5200, 2100, 2300, DG series Weber) are not set up to support the dual vac dizzy used on the 1960 - 1967 cars, i.e., you have to change the distributors when you go 2V.
Don't know how far along you are with your rebuild, but if not too late I would recommend a 69 - 73 200 head with the 1.75" carb bore. These heads will flow much better than the stock 170 and yet the combustion chamber is very nearly the same size as the 170. Have the 1.75" intake valves installed when the valve jobs is done (3 angle). This process is simple, won't cost any more that a typical valve job, and will improve performance significantly. However, if you do this you will be committed to a carb and dizzy change so check that dizzy drive issue first. If you can't change the dizzy go with the pre 69 200 head and follow the same process. This will allow you to retain the 1.5" carb bore so that you can stay with the dual vac dizzy carb.
If you go 2V, for my money the Holley 5200 is the way to go. They flow almost twice the volume of the 1V's at WOT and run on 1V until you put your foot in it. The benefit is good bottom end torque with top end flow. They are easy to install, tune and maintain. Parts support is very good. Thay are inexpensive.
Distributor. I use, and recommend, the dual advance 68 - 73 dizzy with Pertronix II electroic ignition and Flamethrower 2 coil. Additionally, I have buypassed (capped off) the vacuum advance. As there have been several sessions here on this subject I recommend looking through my related postings for lots of opinion. Also take a look here www.bob2000.com/dist.htm
While each of these changes will add power you can feel in the seat of you pants (carb & dizzy go togather), if you add a header (6x1), 2" exhaust pipe and a free flow muffler you will increase rear wheel HP buy approx 40%.
Enjoy the process - Steve
You didn't say what year your 170 is. If your a '64 or later you can use the 68 - 73 dual advance dizzy or the DS2. Earlier 170's have a smaller dizzy drive so the switch to the later dizzy is complicated by a requirement to overbore the drive hole. This is important because the 2V carbs. we typically use (5200, 2100, 2300, DG series Weber) are not set up to support the dual vac dizzy used on the 1960 - 1967 cars, i.e., you have to change the distributors when you go 2V.
Don't know how far along you are with your rebuild, but if not too late I would recommend a 69 - 73 200 head with the 1.75" carb bore. These heads will flow much better than the stock 170 and yet the combustion chamber is very nearly the same size as the 170. Have the 1.75" intake valves installed when the valve jobs is done (3 angle). This process is simple, won't cost any more that a typical valve job, and will improve performance significantly. However, if you do this you will be committed to a carb and dizzy change so check that dizzy drive issue first. If you can't change the dizzy go with the pre 69 200 head and follow the same process. This will allow you to retain the 1.5" carb bore so that you can stay with the dual vac dizzy carb.
If you go 2V, for my money the Holley 5200 is the way to go. They flow almost twice the volume of the 1V's at WOT and run on 1V until you put your foot in it. The benefit is good bottom end torque with top end flow. They are easy to install, tune and maintain. Parts support is very good. Thay are inexpensive.
Distributor. I use, and recommend, the dual advance 68 - 73 dizzy with Pertronix II electroic ignition and Flamethrower 2 coil. Additionally, I have buypassed (capped off) the vacuum advance. As there have been several sessions here on this subject I recommend looking through my related postings for lots of opinion. Also take a look here www.bob2000.com/dist.htm
While each of these changes will add power you can feel in the seat of you pants (carb & dizzy go togather), if you add a header (6x1), 2" exhaust pipe and a free flow muffler you will increase rear wheel HP buy approx 40%.
Enjoy the process - Steve
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Anonymous
Guest
Steve, Thanks for the info. The motor I'm using is a 66 so I should be able to do all of the changes outlined pretty easily. My 64 came with a 61 block and a 67 head so I'm just trying to clean up all the bastardization that has been done to the cay.
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Anonymous
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Most of us have been there. The mixture of casting numbers, carbs, distributors, etc is amazing. My 66 came with a 65 block and a 69 head, the wrong carb (stick vs. auto) and the wrong dizzy. Oh well, that's the fun of it.
Steve
Steve
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Anonymous
Guest
I have a '69 with a 250, and I was wondering if anyone knew what size intake it has. I was also wondering what the Clifford's model number is for the adapter. i'm 15 and i just want to make it scoot a little better. I wish Clifford had pics for all of their products and more detailed descriptions. So all i need is which adapter to buy, and which carb to buy. Also how to install it. 
Howdy Back FMC:
This is kinda a different questions. Might be a good idea to start a new topic.
The '60 year is a tough one because it is a BIG change year and true to FoMoCo, each change was integrated in the course of production. Your '69 250 could have a C9DE- 6090-and then a C,F,J, or K suffix. All of these would be a 1.5" carb hole, MOST LIKELY a 52 cc chamber, and a hex shaped intake log. A C9DE-6090-M suffix the head will likely have a 1.75" carb hole, a 62 (?) cc combustion chamber, and a large volume, flat-topped log intake manifold. The "M" suffix is a good indication, but the only way to know for sure is to disassemble and measure.
I hope that helps.
Adios, David
This is kinda a different questions. Might be a good idea to start a new topic.
The '60 year is a tough one because it is a BIG change year and true to FoMoCo, each change was integrated in the course of production. Your '69 250 could have a C9DE- 6090-and then a C,F,J, or K suffix. All of these would be a 1.5" carb hole, MOST LIKELY a 52 cc chamber, and a hex shaped intake log. A C9DE-6090-M suffix the head will likely have a 1.75" carb hole, a 62 (?) cc combustion chamber, and a large volume, flat-topped log intake manifold. The "M" suffix is a good indication, but the only way to know for sure is to disassemble and measure.
I hope that helps.
Adios, David
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Anonymous
Guest
I have a few questions on upgrading...
Questions....
Which is it 1.5 or 1.75? How do I find out? Do we have to pull the existing carb to find out?
Who is Tom Stovebolt and can we get what we need from him?
Without the lip, how does the air cleaner stay seated on the "metal plate?"
I'm curious WHAT was used to "fabricate" the arm...
Questions....
Which is it 1.5 or 1.75? How do I find out? Do we have to pull the existing carb to find out?
Who is Tom Stovebolt and can we get what we need from him?
Without the lip, how does the air cleaner stay seated on the "metal plate?"
I'm curious WHAT was used to "fabricate" the arm...
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Anonymous
Guest
Check out my website. I have pictures and descriptions there. A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.albertpenello.com/mustang
Look at the bottom of the 'engine' page.
http://www.albertpenello.com/mustang
Look at the bottom of the 'engine' page.
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Anonymous
Guest
That may just do the trick, nice setup you have there. Well I will take a look and see if that will be all... although I am still curious how to get a hold of this Tom Stovebolt. Maybe he has a website or something...? Thanks again
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Check out my links page
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I can help there...http://www.stoveboltengineco.com...straight off albert's website link..
But can someone clear up which carb requires the LEAST Tuning? I really need a new carb cause mine is running bad. I am gonna convert real soon. :!:
I found a guy who has a weber 32/36 DGES..the whole thing including the air cleaner, rebuilt carb and adapter is like $210. :!:
Albert's was like $165...but he mentioned that Holley's need tuning frequently...plus that fabricating and shearing off the lip scare me..
Now what about the auotlites 2100? are these the ones that are hard to tune cause of getting to a certain setting...but then they stay tuned?:
oiy...anyone?...a little help here!?! :
I still can't find that vaccuum advance...I am getting crappy (13) miles per...actually ran outta gas on Friday...on I-95. :roll: I am trying to get this without calling NPD..they just went UP in price. Anyone know what part stores actually carry this?
chaz
But can someone clear up which carb requires the LEAST Tuning? I really need a new carb cause mine is running bad. I am gonna convert real soon. :!:
I found a guy who has a weber 32/36 DGES..the whole thing including the air cleaner, rebuilt carb and adapter is like $210. :!:
Albert's was like $165...but he mentioned that Holley's need tuning frequently...plus that fabricating and shearing off the lip scare me..
Now what about the auotlites 2100? are these the ones that are hard to tune cause of getting to a certain setting...but then they stay tuned?
: oiy...anyone?...a little help here!?!
: I still can't find that vaccuum advance...I am getting crappy (13) miles per...actually ran outta gas on Friday...on I-95. :roll: I am trying to get this without calling NPD..they just went UP in price. Anyone know what part stores actually carry this?
chaz
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Anonymous
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LOL
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Anonymous
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Can't thank you guys enough for the help, and wow are you quick with responses... I'll try and figure out the installation, although with all these sites and instructions I think we may be able to pull it off. Thanks again.
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Anonymous
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still skerred...
j/k...I just dont wanna buy the wring thing...and wish I had somehting else
j/k...I just dont wanna buy the wring thing...and wish I had somehting else
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Anonymous
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OK here's the thing - just about any carb is going to have to be tuned to work properly. If you just want a carb that will bolt right on with no modifications to anything, get yourself a Holley 1946. I have a picture of one on my website. That was the easiest, bolt-right-on, no fabrication at all carb that I can think of and it runs fine.
If you want to upgrade - it's going to take some work. The Carter RBS that I had was only a LITTLE bit easier than my Holley 5200, and they both required tuning. With the Carter, you're still going to have linkage problems and you'll need to get the right air cleaner.
You're going to have to get comfortable doing some fabrication if you want to upgrade to a 2bbl. NONE of them will bolt right on and you'll have to do something about an air cleaner on any of them.
I'm confused about you "can't find the vaccum advance"? What does that mean? There is a vacuum canister that comes off the distributor, that should go to ported vacuum on the carb. There should be some markings on the carb if I remember correctly.
As long as you're using the stock Dizzy, you'll need to get a piece of pipe with a fitting on the end that fits. Every NAPA on the planet has a bin of them sitting right by the counter. Just get the right size fitting, and cut the pipe so you have a metal hose sticking out. Then get a piece of rubber hose and go from the end of the pipe to the carb. All done!
If you want to upgrade - it's going to take some work. The Carter RBS that I had was only a LITTLE bit easier than my Holley 5200, and they both required tuning. With the Carter, you're still going to have linkage problems and you'll need to get the right air cleaner.
You're going to have to get comfortable doing some fabrication if you want to upgrade to a 2bbl. NONE of them will bolt right on and you'll have to do something about an air cleaner on any of them.
I'm confused about you "can't find the vaccum advance"? What does that mean? There is a vacuum canister that comes off the distributor, that should go to ported vacuum on the carb. There should be some markings on the carb if I remember correctly.
As long as you're using the stock Dizzy, you'll need to get a piece of pipe with a fitting on the end that fits. Every NAPA on the planet has a bin of them sitting right by the counter. Just get the right size fitting, and cut the pipe so you have a metal hose sticking out. Then get a piece of rubber hose and go from the end of the pipe to the carb. All done!
