Valvetrain Questions - 250 Alloy Head HF-1 1982

hucklburry

Well-known member
I bought Xflowecono's (Dave in TX) 76DA block with 82 alloy head, it sat for years, I thought I had oiled it enough before start up but bent 2 pushrods (hard to know until I got an exhaust on it, then started tuning carb, and finally did a compression test). Anyway, here is where I am at:

#2 intake seems the hydraulic lifter didn't pump up, I can spin the lifter but not getting it out too easy yet, working on that
#5 intake valve seems to be stuck closed, I am working on freeing it up (soaking now) hoping to not remove the head

This engine has like 3000 miles on a crow cam 14613, a bit of a "torq" cam, and crow recommends HT900 lifters, not a problem to source in the US
Crow recommends PR-917 push rods, which are 5/6" ball ends .080 wall, 9.7" long - mine aren't marked but that seems to be what it has (I will double check measurements) - I can get these in the US, and I can even get 5/6" .105 wall, is it worth it or better to just bend a push rod if there is a problem?

So I had pulled the valve cover and got the bent pushrods out, and out of 12 rocker arms, 2 are different. See the picture, I have two of the one on the top or left, and 10 of the one on the bottom or right. A google search looks like the one on the bottom or right references correctly to a stock crossflow rocker, part #181-1034, that I can get in the US also pretty easy. I don't know why it has 2 that are different??

Assuming I get the valve freed up, I am thinking of getting all new hydraulic lifters and pushrods, and at least 2 rocker arms. Perhaps some would recommend just going through the existing lifters cleaning etc as they were already used on this cam?

I've searched through the forum, I see roller rockers using a kit talked about, but that conversion kit from crane cams seems to be obsolete. This isn't a high reving engine with this cam (its installed in a 66 Bronco with a 3 speed on the column, 4.11 gears, and soon 33" tires), I wouldn't mind installing roller rocker arms, but I don't know the latest way to do that and what it does to my pushrods? Any current info would be appreciated.

To summarize - my big question is why the 2 odd ball rocker arms, and info on a roller rocker arm conversion (keeping the hydraulic lifters to fit the crow cam)

Thank you! --Jim
 

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bubba22349

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Hi Jim, I wouldn’t think the lifters are the problem but you can change them if you want. This is where i am focusing, Having the stuck #5 valve is very common from an engine thats sat un-used for a long time the valve guides will get dry a little rust forms on the stem and locks it up bending the push Rod which is the weakest link. And either a lack of oil to pump up the #2, lifter or that #2 valve was also stuck to, which in my opin was most likely. The good thing in my experience is the damage done is usually only to the push rods

You could try spraying some pretreating oil on that #5 i have recently used some thats is excellent from NAPA called Free All it really travels and cleans. In a simple test you should be able to push down on all the valve retainers to see if the valve will move a little but I would probably still spray all the valve stems while you have it apart. I cant answer why the two different rocker arms were used might be just what was available but if they are the same ratio it probably isnt a big deal in how they will operate. Best of luck
 

eggman918

Active member
Acetone & ATF mixed 50/50 is my go to for penetrant, I spent a couple of decades as a machinist for a well and pump shop and it was the best thing we found. keep it in a sealed container and shake it well before use.
 

hucklburry

Well-known member
Well I do hope you are right! I sprayed what I had on hand, kroil last night and some PB blaster earlier today - I figured I would step up my game later (the atf/acetone or similar) if I need too. Wish me luck!
 

hucklburry

Well-known member
UPDATE, I started this yesterday, used Kroil first, few hours later some PB Blaster as those are what I had on hand. Dug through my cabinet last night, found some ATF, let is soak overnight, and this morning she moves. Still needs some work, sticky, takes seconds to spring back up, but she moved from full up (compared measurements between each intake valve height)

So I either run it with new pushrods or figure out the rocker arm situation on those 2 odd balls, and if its "easy" to go roller rocker arms?

Thank you --Jim
 

xctasy

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Good fortune, hucklburry. What you are dealing with are a set of used rockers from a 351M.


I bailed on completing the four stage AOD trans adaptor for David, and got spooked off when he wanted to eliminate the emissions gear and I have no one to blame but myself for all that. His work was excellent, and I cannot speak highly enough of him.

I've gotta say, having common bolt paterns for carbs and rockers is a two edged form.

Ford spends millions of dollars developing engines over the world, and they share parts, but there are very critical differences. As long as you do the basic checking, you should be okay. I would much rather you get your info from here, but I will say that going over former board user Mike1157's posts here might help. He has used a 525 lift cam with Chevy roller rockers and screw in studs. His 621 page stubb is stored over at Stang Net, CarMichealAngelo.

Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen. Thread starter CarMichael Angelo; Start date Aug 26, 2013.
"https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/1978-mercury-cyclone-the-pig-is-in-the-pen.871263/"

Index
Because of the length of this thread, I've added these quick reference links to specific areas of the build.
(Work in progress)

Some Completed Car pics:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yr7izLhmCLN3PpkA7
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApMrRU34olFpivwIeVb9QFrxCESMtA



Build Plan

Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Chassis
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Completed SFC's install:
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Rear Suspension:
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Wheels/Tires
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Rear end
Initial Narrowing
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Completed Rear:
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With Cobra brakes installed:
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Mini Tub
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The Official Gila Monster Build
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Engine
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Oil pan Fab:
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Basic Block Mods-lifter galley clearancing
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Deck widening:
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Side Plate:
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Intake manifold Construction:
My Diy Fi Intake Takes Shape. | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Initial mock up
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Trans

Engine compartment

Initial sanding/welding:
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Completed welding:
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Painted
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Interior
The Dash
Version 1 using stock dash:
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Version 1 scrapped, Version 2 using steel tubing:
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Initial sheet metal coverings-dash top:
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The skeleton out in the sun:
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Initial fab of ga. pod ("Winkin")
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The underpod initial fab ("Blinkin")
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Dash Version 3 w/ center insert, electronics mocked up
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The console fab and rough completion:
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More dash/console rough trim out:
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Dash frame painted
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Dash top covered and stained
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Complete dash mock up
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Turbocharger
Hot side fabrication:
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Turbo manifold complete:
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Cold side initial fabrication:
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Intercooler

Electrical

ECU
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Body
Decal Concept
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Lower side scoops(The Gila Gills)
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Wind Tunnel tests on Gila Gills:
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Gila Gills complete:
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Fuel system
Basic Fuel tank surgery:
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Fuel tank lining, Fuel pump mounting
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Lines
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Pump/filters
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Fairmont, Inline 6 cylinder, turbocharged, australian head, roller cammed, turbocharged, fuel injected
 
Last edited:

xctasy

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So I either run it with new pushrods or figure out the rocker arm situation on those 2 odd balls, and if its "easy" to go roller rocker arms?

Thank you --Jim
see "https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...-cyclone-the-pig-is-in-the-pen.871263/page-19"

You can use US sourced bolt on adjustable Cleveland 2V or 335 series 351M/400 rockers, roller tip or plain. Then use FE pushrods with 9.62", plus or minus 60 thou to get the right valve tip position.

No changes required. As you go up past the stock 435 lift at the valve lift, you need more spring height. 1.700" is okay stock, but you'll always need new springs as they are a weak point in all Canted Vavle Fords.

Up at the 525 Thou valve lift level, you need 1.800", and 3/8" pushrods, Boss 302 or 351 style guide plates and redrilling for 12 Posilock 7/16" studs.

CarMichael Angelo


Comp BBC Beehive valve springs 1.8oo installed height 1.464 diameter, 160# closed/420# open.
Comp Chrome moly retainers. 10 degree locks.
Comp spring cups.
Trick flow SBC 1.5" SS Exhaust valves.
Scorpion BBC 1.880 SS Exhaust valves (used as intakes)
Crane Cams 3/8 pushrod guideplate kit for BBF/Cleveland.
Comp 1.73 BBF/Cleveland roller rockers.
 

hucklburry

Well-known member
I replaced 2 rocker arms with stock melling stuff, 2 pushrods with melling, and the 2 lifters, used assembly lube and such. This page and Oz Forums have been a HUGE help for me. I found all these parts local, and it made sense to swap out the problems and leave what was happy.

She runs pretty awesome, I think I have the weber 38 dialed in fairly decent (DGMS manual choke) - I can get parts in the US easier, a rebuild kit for the 34ADM would come from Italy or Australia, so I swapped it out. The 38 still has the fuel return, I plumbed it into a Ford fuel filter with 2 inlets, seems to be working well. It is before the pump, almost like a little fuel reservoir in the engine bay.

I have some front suspension to work out, at 50mph she was all over the road, but I filled up the tank, got ice cream, and went home. By this weekend I should have it sorted out to drive more.

But the low end torque of this 250, with 4.11 gears and 33s seems to be a good combo, she went up hills just fine, pretty stoked about this engine. I think she puts out torque and hp similar to a stock 1960s V8, maybe even more drivable with the torque and the RPM it comes in at.

I purposely wanted to stay a six, I stayed with the column shift, and the Bronco rat/ran 3-speed. The bellhousing I got bolts to the engine, but didn't have the holes to bolt to the transmission. The casting was thick in the correct areas, so I drilled and tapped the bell to bolt to the 3 speed. I didn't get the clutch fork with the bell, and even emailing junkyards down under, I couldn't find one, I was advised it was a hard one to find, I don't know. I installed a McLeod hydraulic clutch that is working pretty nicely so far, fingers crossed. I sort of wish I had worked with a stock Ford hydraulic stuff like we do with a ZF swap, maybe next time I will research all that given what I learned on this one.

The US 250 is taller, and has some hood clearance issues in a Bronco. This engine didn't, although I have the shortest air cleaner I could find. I need to do another check and see if I can change that up over the winter to a bigger air filter. The stock crossflow oil pan BARELY clears the front crossmember. I need to check the front axle and make sure she doesn't hit the oil pan, or install bump stops. The Bronco isn't for hard core off road, more for trips to soccer games and the hardware store, but I don't want to need to order another pan from Australia!

I had firewall clearance issues with the back of the intake, so I clearanced the firewall. The 3 speed column shift rubs just a hair on the bell at a bolt, I need to slightly bend it. The header (3-2-1) for the 250 just barely rubbed the frame, I had a local custom shop heat and bend the header for me, and install a 2.5" exhaust to the back passenger corner with a cheap 1 chamber race muffler. She sounds pretty nice.

I'll put together a post on it in a few weeks probably, I want to get some miles on her before winter. I have lucked my way into 3 early Broncos and they all get parked for the winter so the salt doesn't eat them up.

Thank you!
 

xctasy

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The alloy head Aussie 250 2bbl is the best six cylinder OHV engine for its bore spacing. It's not quite a 245 or 265 Chrysler Hemi six, but very close. Compared to the 225 Slant 6, 4 liter Jeep or 258 AMC or 250 OHC or Chevy 250 or Kaiser 230 OHC....it's much better fuel economy wise and low end torque. The Jeep and AMC engines are smoother than any other OHV six, though. ...the US or Aussie 250 is just a six counterweight crank engine, not fully counterweighted.

Interchange parts for
1. the rocker gear,
2. pushrods,
3. ignition,
4. Weber base two barrel,
5. making space for the sump
6. and return line
7. and manifold...
8. and options for a potential automatic...they occupy 90% of the needs of everyone.


The other 10%, aspirational desires like

9. turbos,
10. superchargers,
11. triple carbs and the like, that's what I major in.

I'm glad you used the Carter fuel pump with its specific heat vapor reducing return line. I spent 20 years bleeding that info from my chest, and it's nice that someone had taken heed.

I've imported 205 hp L48 Crossfire Corvette engines, three US spec 2.8 liter Cologne V6s, a few Dodge 3.9 liter V6s, several US 200''s and done countless other New Zealand Hyundai and Mitsubishi andBritish Leyland 1275 A series and LD 28 Nissan engine swaps. The US stuff is always far superior and your best served by adapting a US part to any imported engine to save on cost.


In my opinion, the exception for that is the Alloy Head II Cross Flow 3.3 and 4.1 liter. The Australian emissions system and every aspect of the Weber ADM 34 and it's downshift TV cable is head and shoulders over anything in the US. Items 3, 4 and 6 are matters for the component industry. The 80-81, 82-84, 1985, and 1986-1992 non EFI 3.3 and 4.1 liters....the #226 Gregory Service Manual lists just how complicated parts interchange is.

Ford Australia spent millions on making these engines a viable 302 Cleveland 2v 4bbl Carter 188 or 207 hp Ford V8 replacement, so a good 2bbl or EFi 4.1 liter matches or exceeds the low end off idle torque of a 4.9 Big Six or 5.0. Doing similar 650 to 2800 rpm torque while using 30% less fuel from the small port 8.6 to 9.35: 1 compression Honda Alloy head.

Once you get your engine and air cleaner sorted, I'd be keen to get a US sourced Weber 38 DGES so I can sell US parts for my customers here. The Asian Pacific parts supply doesn't really give a hoot about supporting 35 year old cars because it's always seen as Anti Bussiness. The Bosch ignition system is also a problem, with other companis muscling in, but the Aussie / NZ market is small, and the people absolutely unscrupulous. The US is always resourceful and it just PAINFULLY SLOW to cotton on to overseas advances because of what emission controll did to six cylinder US engines from 1966 to 1992.

Australia had US 1975 emission compliance worked out by 1986 in Australia, but lagged Way behind in automatic gearboxes from 1982 to 1992.

I don't supply X-flow alloy heads and don't want to because I'd like to think the Aluminum Classic In Lines and Vintage In Lines 200/250 non crossflow head's would have taken over the Mustang and Fox and Early Bronco world in a 400 Horsepower Stampede.

This has proven not to be the case, and it is a great shame since I have spent all my 20 years here attempting to harmonise in with the needs of what Six Cylinder Early Bronco and Mustang/Falcon/Fox and F truck people hold dear. I didn't sign up for geriatric support for 1 bbl in line six plodders who couldn't find an SCV valve let alone a kickdown rod.


I wish you and everyone else here every success in your endeavours.
 

JPierce

Well-known member
xctasy,

Did you ever do any flow bench testing of the aussie 250 OHV crossflow head and was there any difference between the early cast iron head vs the aluminum version?
 

xctasy

5K+
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xctasy,

Did you ever do any flow bench testing of the aussie 250 OHV crossflow head and was there any difference between the early cast iron head vs the aluminum version?
Yes. The factory only supplied figures between the second revision 1979-1980 iron cross flow head and the Ist Revision HF Honda Ford head for October 1980 release. The head flowed 7 cfm extra at 145 cfm with a port size reduction from 36.5 mm to 33 mm. The earlier June1976 to May 1979 head had larger ports which were non symmetrical with Pre-cross flow approximately 40 mm ports. Like the 2.3 Lima, each port was different. Ford Australia reduced port diameter in three steps, then improved mixture motion for a steadily improving emission and fuel consumption and performance. Compression ratios from 1976 to 1980 were devised for 97 (RON/MON/2), and started 8.9, then 9.15, then 9.35. In 1983, the EFI compression ratio dropped to 8.8:1, the Jan 1986, to 8.6 on carb, 8.7 on EFI.

Ford then added a High Swirl head with bigger intake valves to match the 145 cfm intake figure at 435 thou lift. Ford made changes to move away from 1 bbl carbs to 2bbl and Non sequential Bosco based and then non sequential bank fire EECIV EFi. Power changes were from 121 to 164 hp, with the stock 256 degree 109 LCA US 250 1969 style 155 hp gross and 170 hp 250 2V cam. It was only in October 1984 that the 264 degree hi lift cam was added to the EFI to improve its hp from 149 to 164 hp.

Generally, the intake cfm staped the same from 1976 to 1992 on cross flows, iron an alloy....but there were year to year variances which could wipe or add 7 cfm to that 145 cfm figure. Ford Australia were constantly improving the base combination torque figures by a combination of different head casting machining and ignition and fuel delivery changes. The advent of Bosch Electronic ignition, done as a conversion to the Chrysler/ Holden/Ford Lincoln line six co-open Bosch 61 distributor, was the reason for the maintaing and adding to the 1979 compression ratio rise for six more years . All 250 engines are 9.15 to 9.35 C/R for the 79-85 carb engines. Australia and New Zealand had very high compression engines because of high lead content gasoline with 0.85 grams of TEL lead per liter. In 1986, unleaded gas was mandated when Australia followed USA 1975 and Japan 1975 emission laws, because West Germany, Sweden and Australia agreed to implement a one standard 91 octane gasoline. Technically...low lead, but called Unleaded.

Hence Australia's 1986 to 1992 carb 4.1 liter engines are close to USA 1986 to 1992 compliant, just missing a 3 way catalyst and DealerTrouble Coded Stoichometery. Our Australian market Falcon OHV cross flow cars from 86 to 92 had two bed catalysts and a kind of F 150 truck style evaporative emissions package. From 1979 to 1992, the actual power and torque levels and city and highway mpg improved 13% despite a 6 base point drop in octane, a drop from 9.15 and 9.35:1 compression to 8
6:1 and a 50% stricter EU 1986/ US 1975 emission's.

Most of it due to reduced intake port cc and smaller diameter ports, and much higher SAE padded wheel mixture morion. Exactly what was happening with the Yates Cleveland aluminum head's at NASCAR compatible to the old Iron 4V Cleveland heads. Henry Ford II''s intials are on the Honda Ford Alloy head. It put into practise in Australia what Ford USA couldn't do with the High Swirl 1986 Mustang engine....16.1 :1 air fuel ratio lean cruise was progressively eliminated as an option in 1986 US EFi passanger cars.

Our Kiwi New Zealand carb 3.3 and 4.1 liter 1976 to 1986 engines had EGR removed and two way cats removed, and gained a 3% power increase, all of it due to air fuel ratio changes, not reduced intake heat or backpressure.

So the 1976 to 1992 Cross flow OHV Ford six was a constantly changing beast which from 76 to 85, doesn't suit US low octane gasoline. From 1986 to 1992, it requires electronic spark control and all the factory Australian or New Zealand carb and EST timing parts, or it won't run without damage. Each year of the 16 year's of production, the engine spec was unique and mixing and matching parts is a major source of decision making mental maps before you can throw a spanner at them.

The Ford Australia engineering cylinder head flow cfm figures and port changes for the 1980 Honda alloy head were published in the Australian Motor Manual.
 

JPierce

Well-known member
Interesting stuff. I have been racking my brain trying to remember some of the details of one of my step dads race cars back in the late 70's. It was a Mustang II and I think it had the Aussie 250 6 with a cast iron OHV crossflow head. Don't know why he did get the aluminum head. I hit a dead end searching the web for info on it. Found a picture of the car but nothing on the engine. I remember he was impressed with it. He pulled a 300 6 out of one of his f150's and put this 250 in it to do some compressed natural gas emissions testing.
 

xctasy

5K+
VIP
Interesting stuff. I have been racking my brain trying to remember some of the details of one of my step dads race cars back in the late 70's. It was a Mustang II and I think it had the Aussie 250 6 with a cast iron OHV crossflow head. Don't know why he did get the aluminum head. I hit a dead end searching the web for info on it. Found a picture of the car but nothing on the engine. I remember he was impressed with it. He pulled a 300 6 out of one of his f150's and put this 250 in it to do some compressed natural gas emissions testing.
See

4-bbl conversions from stock 2-bbl manifolds.

Any thing can be if you alloy weld, but on the crossflow, your better buying the right kind, or adding a Barry Grant or similar 2-bbl to 4-bbl adaptor. Hacking up a good Ultraflow Sprint with a TIG welder isn't smart. The Aussie 250 2V non crossflow has the two inner tracts pitched appart 5.44", so Ford Oz had plenty of meat in the centre section for welding. Not so the crossflow.

See how close the inner runners are to the 2-bbl base?



1021DtO82DA9245intkaemanifold.jpg



There are Cain, Redline and Lynx 4-bbl intakes which suit, but are not as good as the stock, Sprint or triple Weber manifolds.

They do work and will be as got as Mustangaroos 4-bbl 2V conversion.


2-barrels:

The 2-bbl 500 Holley may yield 300 hp on a methonol burning oval track racer, but you'd be fortunate to get more than 215 hp with the Ultraflow Sprint because the 500 cfm 2-bbl is really only a 354 cfm carb.

Triple Webers:

The stock brake booster may hit a triple DCOE Weber instillation, may not. It depends on the car.

Just make sure you get the stuff for the alloyhead crossflows after mid 1980 until early 1993.

The top head is cast iron, from 1976 to 1980. The one below is 80 to 93 alloy Honda head

1004DtOXEFalconAlloyHeadIIHF5Hondacastcrossflowh.jpg



The 2-bbl manifold here isn't for the alloy head. It has a coolant path under number 2 intake. Don't get one of these.
Item4000NewImage4.jpg


This is not the Ultraflow Sprint, but its similar. If you want to hack one up like Mustangaroos, then it may be better to get a 4-bbl intake insted.

Item4000NewImage3.jpg
 

JPierce

Well-known member
Those ports on the cast iron head are really strange. Each one being in a different location and each port looks like they're shaped different. Any idea why they did this? Engine angle? Looks like the pattern maker had a drinking problem.
 

xctasy

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VIP
The much taller 9.38 inch deck of the Australian 200 and 250 was a combined design to save production costs since 1971, in the US, a two tier 7.803 or 9.469 inch tall block foundry break was devised for 144/170/200''s, and the 250. Down Under it was decided that the much taller 200/250 combined design inline six was to used in the Transit Van, the Cortina Six ( a uniibody with a Ranger style firewall) and the planned lower hood XD Blackwood Falcons, destined for 1979 release. All three unibodies now required a very tight air cleaner and intake envelope, both height wise, width wise, and especially, the US drivers side fire-wall, where Ford of Europe ( LHD and RHD Taunus and Cortina ) placed the battery and Ford of England (RHD) placed the HVAC unit. So just like your Lima OHC 2300 and later Ranger 2000 and 2500 OHC's decided to use the smaller EOA Pinto intake manifold, ...it looks like the Fords US Dearborn and Australian Broadmedows guys were drinking from the same cup.

The whole Cross flow Six in line engine was cut down to a Four cylinder planned for the Front drive Erica program, which Ford and Honda were going to Co-work as an OHV Statified charge engine. Early on, it missed the boat on Ford USA's cost targets and then it became just an Australian X flow engine. The Lima OHC 2300 was latter dead to be too big to easily fit the Front Drive Escorts and Tempo/Topaz/Tracer front drive package, so Dearborn decided to use the Falcon Six tooling on the OHV 2.3 and 2.5 liter Four used in both the 1984 Erica and the 1986 Taurus and Sable. The 2300 OHC does fit the front drive cars, but it's much tighter with a 4.17 bore spacing and cogged belt OHC. The 4.08 bore spacing Falcon six and 8.66 inch deck Tempo 2300 / 9.38 inch deck Taurus 2500 is very compact optimized to application deck height emgine. If you look at Hondas four cylinders, they chopen and change intake bolt centres.

In its three Austtalian OHV versions, 76-79 April iron X flow, Revised 1979 May-1980 Septembet iron x-flow, and optimized late 1980 Octobet to the last Falcon Ute 1992 X -flow alloy head, the whole intake manifolds were radically on the pi55, um, ah, optimised. Right from the start in early 1971 development at Geelong by Ford and Repco each group was working with Ford on a fuel injected intake for both the Cleveland 302/351 and Geelong built 200/250 x- flow....much like your Father in laws Bosch mechanical injection system. The old X-flow iron and alloy head intakes were "optimized".

Optimized and On the Pi55...sometimes look to be the same, but Dearborn sure started the trend first if you look at the 1974 Mustang II and Pinto 2300 intakes. That is also seriously wack....but for sure, the 76 to late 1980 iron x-flow should get some kinda award on Apparent on job drinking and design. Respectively, and With Respect!
 

JPierce

Well-known member
I Didn't realize they carried the iron head into the late 80's. Thought they discontinued the iron head after they cast it in aluminum. Had to look up what Pi55 was, hah! Here's a pic of the car he raced at Pikes Peak that I think had the 250 Xflow engine. It was turbo'ed and on propane. I should know all the details since I built the car for him but we built a lot of different cars I just can't remember much about this one. Most people think that year mustang was forgettable anyway. My mother threw out tons of pictures of his old race cars and pics of my cars :( I know you've done of research on these old 6's, did ever come across any articles on this car?

pikes peak.jpg
 
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